2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[FittingMechanics]

I don't know if we watched the same race, but what makes you think that Lando would be able to do 1 stop? I mean he was in front of LEC in 2nd stint and still ate his fronts? He didn't had enough speed to charge into distance with PIA and LEC behind.

I think that stint on mediums at the start was strong for both McLaren drivers. If you remember, Norris was about to pass Leclerc when he went to undercut him. If McLaren were in 1-2 they would have built a gap to Leclerc which would make undercut not a possibility for Leclerc. This would likely mean all of them go longer (probably to at least Sainz pit window) or even later.

After this pitstop, Norris doesn't have to undercut Leclerc and both McLarens can once again manage their gap and tires. Would that work for a one stop, no idea, but since I believe Piastri could have done a one stop like Leclerc, I think so.

I think it would have been a very different race. Probably much better managed by McLaren but who knows, maybe they go on with their two stop and Leclerc wins the race by staying out. But I tend to think it wouldn't happen, Leclerc won by 2 seconds. If he had to stay behind McLaren in first stint he would have lost more than two seconds and wouldn't be in a position to win the race as he did.

[mwillems]

The focus should be on both, issue being that if they had held firm from the start they would have probably had a 1 and 2, and taken points away from Ferrari. They lost points to them in the end, and an upgraded Ferrari will challenge at all races.

We do not know that it will challenge at all races. It's Monza, a track where Ferrari always aim to do well.

I'm surprised they didn't place a rule based on whomever get's to T1 first, but they didn't, and so one driver did his job better than the other. I think it is Ferrari that surprised Mclaren more than the gap to Verstappen. They may have got complacent there.

If Lando wins the WDC this year, he will be one of the weakest world champions in the sport.

If Lando is weak, then Oscar, who loses to him, is generally incompetent.

Any reason as to why?

[Lucky]

We do not know that it will challenge at all races. It's Monza, a track where Ferrari always aim to do well.

I'm surprised they didn't place a rule based on whomever get's to T1 first, but they didn't, and so one driver did his job better than the other. I think it is Ferrari that surprised Mclaren more than the gap to Verstappen. They may have got complacent there.

If Lando wins the WDC this year, he will be one of the weakest world champions in the sport.

If Lando is weak, then Oscar, who loses to him, is generally incompetent.

Any reason as to why?

Losing to such a weak Lando means that he himself is even worse.

[mwillems]

I don't know if we watched the same race, but what makes you think that Lando would be able to do 1 stop? I mean he was in front of LEC in 2nd stint and still ate his fronts? He didn't had enough speed to charge into distance with PIA and LEC behind.

I think that stint on mediums at the start was strong for both McLaren drivers. If you remember, Norris was about to pass Leclerc when he went to undercut him. If McLaren were in 1-2 they would have built a gap to Leclerc which would make undercut not a possibility for Leclerc. This would likely mean all of them go longer (probably to at least Sainz pit window) or even later.

After this pitstop, Norris doesn't have to undercut Leclerc and both McLarens can once again manage their gap and tires. Would that work for a one stop, no idea, but since I believe Piastri could have done a one stop like Leclerc, I think so.

I think it would have been a very different race. Probably much better managed by McLaren but who knows, maybe they go on with their two stop and Leclerc wins the race by staying out. But I tend to think it wouldn't happen, Leclerc won by 2 seconds. If he had to stay behind McLaren in first stint he would have lost more than two seconds and wouldn't be in a position to win the race as he did.

They definitely pit early. Oscar was posting a series of fastest laps and Norris was about to breeze past Leclerc with DRS. But even then, Piastri's gap was so big to the other one stoppers he didn't need to come in. it was already pretty clear that Lando wasn't a threat to anyone so fair enough, put him on Fresh rubber and see if he wants to go for the win. The win was Piatsri's to lose and the team did 2 and 2 to get 5 on this one, although it was a hard call, I'm sure. Even Leclerc was surprised his tyres held out.

[mwillems]

If Lando is weak, then Oscar, who loses to him, is generally incompetent.

Any reason as to why?

Losing to such a weak Lando means that he himself is even worse.

I guess we are different in the way we look at it. I don't have the same expectations of the seven season veteran, dominant and number 1 driver who is in the same ball park as Max and Lewis as I do the guy of 1.5 seasons who is half the gap behind Lando as Lando is to Max, despite Max have the weaker car for most of the season.

I've no doubt Oscar needs to be faster, but I think he has stuff that Norris just doesn't, and I'm starting to think never will. Almost making a career out of messing it up when the pressure is on. I know that sounds harsh, but it's not really wrong either.

Not retaining a lead after seven attempts... I mean come on. It's not even a joke, it's not luck and it's not because of Oscar.

[Lucky]

Any reason as to why?

Losing to such a weak Lando means that he himself is even worse.

I guess we are different in the way we look at it. I don't have the same expectations of the seven season veteran, dominant and number 1 driver who is in the same ball park as Max and Lewis as I do the guy of 1.5 seasons who is half the gap behind Lando as Lando is to Max, despite Max have the weaker car for most of the season.

I've no doubt Oscar needs to be faster, but I think he has stuff that Norris just doesn't, and I'm starting to think never will. Almost making a career out of messing it up when the pressure is on. I know that sounds harsh, but it's not really wrong either.

The entire RB team works for Max and Stella and Brown help a lot. Lando, Stella and Brown only get in the way, worrying about Oscar's psychological state. Oscar doesn't have the main thing yet, speed. Right now, he's only capable of being number 2.

[basti313]

Hmm ... I think he had the speed at least this weekend. But he does not have the points.
I already said several races ago...it is not the championship to win, it is the one they loose....

[mwillems]

Losing to such a weak Lando means that he himself is even worse.

I guess we are different in the way we look at it. I don't have the same expectations of the seven season veteran, dominant and number 1 driver who is in the same ball park as Max and Lewis as I do the guy of 1.5 seasons who is half the gap behind Lando as Lando is to Max, despite Max have the weaker car for most of the season.

I've no doubt Oscar needs to be faster, but I think he has stuff that Norris just doesn't, and I'm starting to think never will. Almost making a career out of messing it up when the pressure is on. I know that sounds harsh, but it's not really wrong either.

The entire RB team works for Max and Stella and Brown help a lot. Lando, Stella and Brown only get in the way, worrying about Oscar's psychological state. Oscar doesn't have the main thing yet, speed. Right now, he's only capable of being number 2.

Max doesn't need that focus to win, he'd take that car and wipe the floor and make team mate his number 2, something that Lando has been given the opportunity to try to do and failed.

To my mind, only favouritism and bias could allow me to think that Lando has what it takes if you look at where his is today and what has done this year.

[FittingMechanics]

They definitely pit early. Oscar was posting a series of fastest laps and Norris was about to breeze past Leclerc with DRS. But even then, Piastri's gap was so big to the other one stoppers he didn't need to come in. it was already pretty clear that Lando wasn't a threat to anyone so fair enough, put him on Fresh rubber and see if he wants to go for the win. The win was Piatsri's to lose and the team did 2 and 2 to get 5 on this one, although it was a hard call, I'm sure. Even Leclerc was surprised his tyres held out.

I really think that Piastri wanted a second stop because Lando already stopped. So he knew Lando was effectively undercutting him. He said that looking with hindsight that it was the wrong call. When you compare laptimes, Piastri was keeping the buffer to Leclerc and didn't show signs of dropping off. He definitely went to pits second time before he had reason to (except to protect against Lando). This call really makes no sense except if they are two different teams fighting.

I wonder if the main mistake in the race was undercutting Leclerc. Lando looked on a roll and would probably overtake Leclerc on that lap (or next lap). The times on hards were not that much faster so extending a stint probably had some merit. I do understand it is possible Leclerc would then pit to undercut Norris on the next lap and we may be mad on forums because of it. So to be fair, undercut on Leclerc was done well and got them what they wanted. Just looking back it forced them into a two stopper.

When you take everything into consideration, I think the main problem was that Norris lost position to Leclerc in T4. That was critical. Without that we have 1-2, we extend the gap to Leclerc and everything is that much easier. No undercut, no early stop and probably easy call to go one stop.

[mwillems]

They definitely pit early. Oscar was posting a series of fastest laps and Norris was about to breeze past Leclerc with DRS. But even then, Piastri's gap was so big to the other one stoppers he didn't need to come in. it was already pretty clear that Lando wasn't a threat to anyone so fair enough, put him on Fresh rubber and see if he wants to go for the win. The win was Piatsri's to lose and the team did 2 and 2 to get 5 on this one, although it was a hard call, I'm sure. Even Leclerc was surprised his tyres held out.

I really think that Piastri wanted a second stop because Lando already stopped. So he knew Lando was effectively undercutting him. He said that looking with hindsight that it was the wrong call.

I wonder if the main mistake in the race was undercutting Leclerc. Lando looked on a roll and would probably overtake Leclerc on that lap (or next lap). The times on hards were not that much faster so extending a stint probably had some merit. I do understand it is possible Leclerc would then pit to undercut Norris on the next lap and we may be mad on forums because of it. So to be fair, undercut on Leclerc was done well and got them what they wanted.

Just looking back it forced them into a two stopper.

When you take everything into consideration, I think the main problem was that Norris lost position to Leclerc in T4. That was critical. Without that we have 1-2, we extend the gap to Leclerc and everything is that much easier. No undercut, no early stop and probably easy call to go one stop.

You may well be right, I'd need to go and listen to the audio. I did see Oscar say he didn't think the tyres would make it so that would be why he was thinking of Lando. From what I recall he expected Charles tyres to die and therefore not be a threat for the win.

[Hoffman900]

Oscar Piastri is a ruthless and clinical overtaker, a real racer and champion - without those instincts he would be unlikely to win F1 championships. If we took some people's ideas on team orders to their logical conclusion then whoever leads after the first race gets priority. 8 races to go, championship well alive, please stop whining people, this is a great season the way it's playing out.

Piastri should be more ruthless and clinical against other people (for example in Zaandvoort) instead of against his teammate which caused thr teammate to almost spin and lose another position.

I can't shake the feeling that most of defending of Piastri is by his fans. You can't be serious that this was a better result for the team.

I am not in favor of Ferrari style team orders (Austria) but they do need to understand that by fighting Norris hard they may lose out on the WDC.

Most of this partisan Piastri support is actually Lewis Hamilton fans. Who hate Lando Norris after he wasn't being sufficiently respectful to Hamilton in the cooldown room a few races ago. There was one other thing that got them mad at him. I cant remember what it was.

“First and foremost I’m a Max Verstappen fan” - you.

Lewis hasn’t been a Mclaren driver in 11 years. Get over yourself and get out of here with that.

[venkyhere]

lol, then everyone would be complaining cos they left them out too long, like they were a few weeks ago

I don't know if we watched the same race, but what makes you think that Lando would be able to do 1 stop? I mean he was in front of LEC in 2nd stint and still ate his fronts? He didn't had enough speed to charge into distance with PIA and LEC behind.

I am going to sound like a broken record here, making the same point as my previous post once again, but please bear with me :

PIA attacking NOR, NOR falling to P3 in lap1 itself, P1-P2 running away into the horizon advantage lost -- none of this mattered, honestly.

All McLaren needed to do, was to extend their first stint to 20-21 laps and do the remaining 33-32 laps on a single set of H. Why didn't they do that ? Because they are a 'reactive' team, they don't have the confidence to 'make the calls' without seeing what others are doing. Even when they came off the M too early, still they had enough opportunity to salvage P1-P2, simply by bringing in the H tyres gently, on such a hot track and go for a 1-stop. What is going to happen if the 1-stopper looks impossible halfway into the stint and tyre shows graining ? Take the hit for a few laps, drive a bit slower, then once the graining phase is over, they tyre comes alive again. Why can't they give themselves a chance ? Didn't they undergo this exact thing in Imola, when NOR suddenly found pace towards the end and attacked VER until the last lap, only to come within 1s ? What would have happened at worst ? P2 and P3, exactly like it happened anyway. But it happened after trying out the 'chicken' strategy, rather than the 'tiger' strategy. That's where the team needs to get sharper. Risks need to be taken, but intelligent ones ; not like the stupid one where they sacrificed 10-15 seconds instead of being prepared to sacrifice 3-4 second loss from double stacking in that dry->wet->dry race (forgot which, Silverstone?).

I've seen NOR do this 'bringing in gently' so many times in the first stint on M tyres, but for some reason, both NOR and PIA and I think the team as a whole, believe in 'massively attacking' the outlap and the first 2-3 laps after their first tyre change. This I have seen consistently, whether it's an attempt to undercut someone ahead or an attempt to overcut someone behind. Such 'burning up the tyre in the outlap itself' (they know the track temp is hot) is so un-necessary. The car has the pace even otherwise. Now, whether they have talked about this and then decided 'lets allow the drivers to do whatever they want in the outlap' is the way they plan their races, I don't know.

Piastri attacking in Lap 1, risking it all is also probably over the limit. I am sure Norris will take it into mind and next time we are in a situation like this he will not leave room for two to go through the chicane. When that happens I hope

That is what is frustrating. Oscar seemed to put himself above the team.

One day Oscar might need Lando to support his title challenge and I think he is burning that bridge this year.

Racing drivers are selfish. This is not the first or last instance of a team where teammates attack each other (not every team has a bottas or a perez, those are exceptions). No matter what 'papaya rules' or 'apple rules' or 'mango rules' are cooked up, a driver's primary enemy is his team mate. That is a universal time-immemorial characteristic of F1. It's how the team man-manages each driver that counts. In this monza race, all the team needed to do was ask the two drivers to 'not burn up' the fresh H needlessly. They would have surely gotten ahead of LeClerc (by my calculation, had a 0.3s/lap advantage over leClerc's ferrari) and then the team could have relayed their 'papaya rules' radio when the two of them would've eventually gotten to P1-P2 by lap 45 or so.

[BMMR61]

There's a lot of assumption that McLaren had a great race pace advantage over Leclerc. They didn't and the Ferrari tended towards lower front degradation. Not to say that McLaren didn't underperform on strategy. Oscar should have been told to stay out, he wasn't losing time to Charles and it would have done one of two things - forced Charles to pit again or held him up for Lando to put the pressure on from behind. The blind belief that most McLaren fans here have that we had the fastest car, end of story, was the same error the strategists were victim to. Yes, the decision to stay out by Ferrari was adventurous, especially with how early his pitstop was. But with a good allrounder car and two very fast drivers a split strategy should have covered the red cars off. I don't agree that Lando would have breezed past Charles had he stayed out another few laps.

[Hoffman900]

There's a lot of assumption that McLaren had a great race pace advantage over Leclerc. They didn't and the Ferrari tended towards lower front degradation. Not to say that McLaren didn't underperform on strategy. Oscar should have been told to stay out, he wasn't losing time to Charles and it would have done one of two things - forced Charles to pit again or held him up for Lando to put the pressure on from behind. The blind belief that most McLaren fans here have that we had the fastest car, end of story, was the same error the strategists were victim to. Yes, the decision to stay out by Ferrari was adventurous, especially with how early his pitstop was. But with a good allrounder car and two very fast drivers a split strategy should have covered the red cars off. I don't agree that Lando would have breezed past Charles had he stayed out another few laps.

That was pointed out by the team. Charles was doing similar lap times as Oscar, in dirty air, with less degradation. The team pretty much conceded based on that, that Charles had more pace in the car than they had.

Ferrari had the car (speed and degradation) which allowed their strategy to work.

I think one thing people are missing is the car dictates the strategy. You can't force a car to do something it can't do.. that's just pounding a round peg into a square hole. Ferrari's car allowed that strategy to work. Both Mclarens were having issues, with Lando having more issues with the left front than OP.

[venkyhere]

There's a lot of assumption that McLaren had a great race pace advantage over Leclerc. They didn't and the Ferrari tended towards lower front degradation. Not to say that McLaren didn't underperform on strategy. Oscar should have been told to stay out, he wasn't losing time to Charles and it would have done one of two things - forced Charles to pit again or held him up for Lando to put the pressure on from behind. The blind belief that most McLaren fans here have that we had the fastest car, end of story, was the same error the strategists were victim to. Yes, the decision to stay out by Ferrari was adventurous, especially with how early his pitstop was. But with a good allrounder car and two very fast drivers a split strategy should have covered the red cars off. I don't agree that Lando would have breezed past Charles had he stayed out another few laps.

Did you see how NOR closed the gap to LEC after the first 10-11 laps ?
That is not from tyre offset, that is pure pace.

Did you see how PIA nearly made up 1.6s/lap in his last stint ?
That is not from tyre offset alone, that is pure pace.