2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[AR3-GP]

I laughed out loud reading this, something I often don't do on F1T.

Here's another one, mwillems:

Having slept one day what was came to my mind is, i really hope Norris didn’t decide to leave the team to join Red Bull.

[Mezger]

Having slept one day what was came to my mind is, i really hope Norris didn’t decide to leave the team to join Red Bull.

I think the team wasn’t fair. He had a good start and they had to let him lead the first lap (ordering Piastri not to carry out hatsh attack like he did).

It would have meant a lot for Lando who suffered a lot from losing positions in the first lap. Lando was a team player in Hungary but the team and Oscar wasn’t in Italy.

Seems to be some strange dynamics going on at McLaren recently and the whole idea of Webber having clauses in there about team orders could be at play.
If Lando just ignores those orders and starts to fight for his own positions then none of those clauses have any weight.
Whatever it is I don't feel that the team are supporting Lando and that sucks after all his time during the last years of been loyal.
Maybe it's time to race for himself and consider moving on.... IF he feels toxicity.

[F1NAC]

lol, then everyone would be complaining cos they left them out too long, like they were a few weeks ago

I don't know if we watched the same race, but what makes you think that Lando would be able to do 1 stop? I mean he was in front of LEC in 2nd stint and still ate his fronts? He didn't had enough speed to charge into distance with PIA and LEC behind.

I am going to sound like a broken record here, making the same point as my previous post once again, but please bear with me :

PIA attacking NOR, NOR falling to P3 in lap1 itself, P1-P2 running away into the horizon advantage lost -- none of this mattered, honestly.

All McLaren needed to do, was to extend their first stint to 20-21 laps and do the remaining 33-32 laps on a single set of H. Why didn't they do that ? Because they are a 'reactive' team, they don't have the confidence to 'make the calls' without seeing what others are doing. Even when they came off the M too early, still they had enough opportunity to salvage P1-P2, simply by bringing in the H tyres gently, on such a hot track and go for a 1-stop. What is going to happen if the 1-stopper looks impossible halfway into the stint and tyre shows graining ? Take the hit for a few laps, drive a bit slower, then once the graining phase is over, they tyre comes alive again. Why can't they give themselves a chance ? Didn't they undergo this exact thing in Imola, when NOR suddenly found pace towards the end and attacked VER until the last lap, only to come within 1s ? What would have happened at worst ? P2 and P3, exactly like it happened anyway. But it happened after trying out the 'chicken' strategy, rather than the 'tiger' strategy. That's where the team needs to get sharper. Risks need to be taken, but intelligent ones ; not like the stupid one where they sacrificed 10-15 seconds instead of being prepared to sacrifice 3-4 second loss from double stacking in that dry->wet->dry race (forgot which, Silverstone?).

I've seen NOR do this 'bringing in gently' so many times in the first stint on M tyres, but for some reason, both NOR and PIA and I think the team as a whole, believe in 'massively attacking' the outlap and the first 2-3 laps after their first tyre change. This I have seen consistently, whether it's an attempt to undercut someone ahead or an attempt to overcut someone behind. Such 'burning up the tyre in the outlap itself' (they know the track temp is hot) is so un-necessary. The car has the pace even otherwise. Now, whether they have talked about this and then decided 'lets allow the drivers to do whatever they want in the outlap' is the way they plan their races, I don't know.

Piastri attacking in Lap 1, risking it all is also probably over the limit. I am sure Norris will take it into mind and next time we are in a situation like this he will not leave room for two to go through the chicane. When that happens I hope

That is what is frustrating. Oscar seemed to put himself above the team.

One day Oscar might need Lando to support his title challenge and I think he is burning that bridge this year.

Racing drivers are selfish. This is not the first or last instance of a team where teammates attack each other (not every team has a bottas or a perez, those are exceptions). No matter what 'papaya rules' or 'apple rules' or 'mango rules' are cooked up, a driver's primary enemy is his team mate. That is a universal time-immemorial characteristic of F1. It's how the team man-manages each driver that counts. In this monza race, all the team needed to do was ask the two drivers to 'not burn up' the fresh H needlessly. They would have surely gotten ahead of LeClerc (by my calculation, had a 0.3s/lap advantage over leClerc's ferrari) and then the team could have relayed their 'papaya rules' radio when the two of them would've eventually gotten to P1-P2 by lap 45 or so.

Check the team radio… they have asked Oscar if he thinks they can 1 stop and he said that his front left was dead. From a guy that was in free air.

They didn’t expect that after some time graining would disappear.

[PapayaFan481]

Having slept one day what was came to my mind is, i really hope Norris didn’t decide to leave the team to join Red Bull.

I think the team wasn’t fair. He had a good start and they had to let him lead the first lap (ordering Piastri not to carry out hatsh attack like he did).

It would have meant a lot for Lando who suffered a lot from losing positions in the first lap. Lando was a team player in Hungary but the team and Oscar wasn’t in Italy.

Seems to be some strange dynamics going on at McLaren recently and the whole idea of Webber having clauses in there about team orders could be at play.
If Lando just ignores those orders and starts to fight for his own positions then none of those clauses have any weight.
Whatever it is I don't feel that the team are supporting Lando and that sucks after all his time during the last years of been loyal.
Maybe it's time to race for himself and consider moving on.... IF he feels toxicity.

Agreed. Lando turned down an offer from Red Bull to remain loyal to McLaren. The team isn't showing him the same level of respect right now.

Yes, Oscar can theoretically still win the WDC, but not realistically. Lando has only just a realistic chance, but McLaren have not won both titles in over 20 years. There is NO guarantee they're this fast next season, so they should be going for the WDC with Lando, because if they get that then the WCC will definitely also be their's.

[CjC]

Mclaren said that the Ferrari didn't have the same pace but was better with the tyres.

Leclerc said McLaren was faster too.

Mark Hughes reckons the graining would have cleared up so with hindsight one or both cars should have one stopped.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark ... za-defeat/

I think after the race, Lando especially was quick to praise the Ferrari due to his disappointment and noted that front tyre wear is a weakness of McLaren- he’s more than likely right so maybe a 2 stop for him was the way to go but Oscar should have 1 stopped in my opinion.

One thing I’m noticing at the moment is Lando isn’t as comfortable in the low DF configuration as Oscar is, maybe he and the team should allow Oscar to have the potential race wins in low DF and Lando worries about winning the races where more DF is required (there are more tracks like that remaining after all)

[AR3-GP]

I have never heard of tire wear problems for Mclaren between Miami and Zandvoort, especially in the hands of Lando Norris.

I'm not convinced that this was his problem in Monza. It was more to do with pacing the stint which is something he did well in many previous GPs but not so well in Monza.

[mwillems]

If Oscar stayed out he was pretty nailed on for the win, yeah. I don't know if the tyres were that bad or the team and drivers were just risk averse.

I think it was universally agreed by both drivers and teams that they thought one stop would be a futile attempt, but the gamble paid.

I wouldn't call it a strategy error either.

[Tvetovnato]

If Oscar stayed out he was pretty nailed on for the win, yeah. I don't know if the tyres were that bad or the team and drivers were just risk averse.

I think it was universally agreed by both drivers and teams that they thought one stop would be a futile attempt, but the gamble paid.

I wouldn't call it a strategy error either.

With the gap Oscar had right before he made his final stop, it has to be considered a strategy error. If Leclerc was 1,5 behind or catching him at 0,5 a lap or so, then it would make sense from what they could see at that point in time. But he had a stable gap of over 5 seconds. Waiting it out a few more laps was the right strategy.

[CjC]

I have never heard of tire wear problems for Mclaren between Miami and Zandvoort, especially in the hands of Lando Norris.

I'm not convinced that this was his problem in Monza. It was more to do with pacing the stint which is something he did well in many previous GPs but not so well in Monza.

Lando said it on Sky in the media pen, that front tyre wear is a weakness of theirs but rear tyre wear is a strength for McLaren, he said that’s why they have been strong on race pace recently.

Thats why I was asking if Baku and Singapore are front or rear limited

[CjC]

If Oscar stayed out he was pretty nailed on for the win, yeah. I don't know if the tyres were that bad or the team and drivers were just risk averse.

I think it was universally agreed by both drivers and teams that they thought one stop would be a futile attempt, but the gamble paid.

I wouldn't call it a strategy error either.

Like Mark Hughes said, i think they just spooked themselves into thinking they needed to 2 stop

[CjC]

Regarding the race, although I’m disappointed McLaren didn’t win I’m looking at the positives:

Was McLaren the fastest car: yes.
Was it beaten by a bit of a Hail Mary strategy: yes
Did they score a podium: yes, two
Did Lando set the fastest lap in the last lap again? Yes
Did the points gap close? Yes
Could they have won the race at a track that is supposedly a weak track for them: yes
Are there upgrades still to come: yes
Do the other drivers think McLaren have the quickest now: yes

[mwillems]

If Oscar stayed out he was pretty nailed on for the win, yeah. I don't know if the tyres were that bad or the team and drivers were just risk averse.

I think it was universally agreed by both drivers and teams that they thought one stop would be a futile attempt, but the gamble paid.

I wouldn't call it a strategy error either.

With the gap Oscar had right before he made his final stop, it has to be considered a strategy error. If Leclerc was 1,5 behind or catching him at 0,5 a lap or so, then it would make sense from what they could see at that point in time. But he had a stable gap of over 5 seconds. Waiting it out a few more laps was the right strategy.

It was definitely a mistake, I'm just not sure whether it was only obvious with hindsight.

[BMMR61]

If Oscar stayed out he was pretty nailed on for the win, yeah. I don't know if the tyres were that bad or the team and drivers were just risk averse.

I think it was universally agreed by both drivers and teams that they thought one stop would be a futile attempt, but the gamble paid.

I wouldn't call it a strategy error either.

With the gap Oscar had right before he made his final stop, it has to be considered a strategy error. If Leclerc was 1,5 behind or catching him at 0,5 a lap or so, then it would make sense from what they could see at that point in time. But he had a stable gap of over 5 seconds. Waiting it out a few more laps was the right strategy.

It was definitely a mistake, I'm just not sure whether it was only obvious with hindsight.

I agree. The "risk" of coming back from -17 seconds when they did pit Oscar and passing both Ferraris was greater than persevering for another 3 laps when the 5 second gap wasn't being eaten away. The latter would have forced Charles either to struggle in Oscar's dirty air or pit. The brains trust isn't once again looking like even a 5/10. Look at the howlers at Hungary (panicking into undercutting your own lead car when there was no threat) and not double stacking the cars at Silverstone AND putting Lando on the non-optimal tyre for the final stint.

The engineers have been excellent in getting both cars in the window most weekends. The pitstops have been pretty decent. The weakness is the strategy team, I know Andrea doesn't believe in throwing anyone under the bus but it needs to be sorted before next season. I've defended them here long enough, lack of "winning experience" is no longer a good enough excuse.

[Venturiation]

Statement made

[Hoffman900]

Statement made

Lando could have been more track center instead of ALL the way to the left. He left a barn door open there.