2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[CaribouBread]

Can I just remind all the people criticising Kimi for his crash in FP1 that a certain other highly rated youngster had a lot of crashes when he was a rookie.... He's now a multiple world champion. If Max could rein it in, so can Kimi.

Yep. At least let the kid have some proper sessions/race weekends before writing him off.

[Mosin123]

That's a chicken before egg thing
Hamilton was clueless until he drove the car, then gave his feedback.
Unfortunately for Merc and Hamilton, that's baked in for the season regardless of how many times Lewis wanted it changed after he drove the car.

How would you know how a car feels, or its handling, or any thing, until you drive it? Am quite curious here. a driver cant give any feedback on a car they have yet to drive.

Exactly. Hence Chicken and egg.

And why driver feedback is bloviated, overrated mess of a metric to attribute to a driver as some mystical superpower.
You can't measure it. It exists after the fact of a car being designed and built.

So why are cars not stepping out in FP1 every time already perfectly set up, why do they keep changing the set up of the car? why do they spend hours upon hours in the sim perfecting said set up?

Hmm, driver feed back.....

[Quantum]

How would you know how a car feels, or its handling, or any thing, until you drive it? Am quite curious here. a driver cant give any feedback on a car they have yet to drive.

Exactly. Hence Chicken and egg.

And why driver feedback is bloviated, overrated mess of a metric to attribute to a driver as some mystical superpower.
You can't measure it. It exists after the fact of a car being designed and built.

So why are cars not stepping out in FP1 every time already perfectly set up, why do they keep changing the set up of the car? why do they spend hours upon hours in the sim perfecting said set up?

Hmm, driver feed back.....

Why is the status quo pretty much the same every race weekend then?
Nothing wrong with extracting the most of a your base, everyone spends hours changing the set up of the car.
It is limited to the base you begin with, as in the total performance potential intrinsically in the car. You try get as close to that as possible. [Edit] And that window will vary for every team, at various intervals (updates, weather, track surface etc). Is there a team that has a driver that cannot set up a car? There have been famous examples in the past of drivers being lost at specific venues. Hamilton taking Button's set ups for example. It's not a linear thing and is a secondary to the base car you start a weekend with. If it wasn't, you wouldn't get McLaren winning races consistently and Red Bull before that. If it was best set up bros, you'd have a lottery weekend wouldn't you?

Suggesting that set up changes can somehow catapult a team beyond the ultimate performance cap of it's car, well that's a novel one. Maybe you could cite consistent examples and forward a CV onto Red Bull?

[Mosin123]

Exactly. Hence Chicken and egg.

And why driver feedback is bloviated, overrated mess of a metric to attribute to a driver as some mystical superpower.
You can't measure it. It exists after the fact of a car being designed and built.

So why are cars not stepping out in FP1 every time already perfectly set up, why do they keep changing the set up of the car? why do they spend hours upon hours in the sim perfecting said set up?

Hmm, driver feed back.....

Why is the status quo pretty much the same every race weekend then?
Nothing wrong with extracting the most of a your base, everyone spends hours changing the set up of the car.
It is limited to the base you begin with, as in the total performance potential intrinsically in the car. You try get as close to that as possible. Suggesting that set up changes can somehow catapult a team beyond the ultimate performance cap of it's car, well that's a novel one. Maybe you could cite consistent examples and forward a CV onto Red Bull?

So you have not seen one race this year in which no team got the most out of its car? really? you have heard no driver saying they couldnt get the car into the right window / find the right set up? no body complaining about balance? No point building a car that looks great on paper, but not so great on track, only have to look at the 2022 Mercedes + 1 sec a lap faster awesomeness no side pod its amazing car its going to challanenge for the title - too test day 1 - car is crap??? LOL

[Matt2725]

This whole "they didn't listen to Lewis" narrative is so tired.

I wonder, how does any team win without Lewis Hamilton giving them feedback on their cars then?

Who's fault will it be if Merc are comfortably ahead of Ferrari next season?

Mercedes came out them selfs and said they didnt listen to the drivers concerns with the car, and the direction they was heading in with development....... The vids are here in this forum.

I know what they said. The reductionist arguments down to the driving position was too far forward or whatever, were never the silver bullet. It's clear even now they still don't actually understand their car and the new floor is potentially a waste in terms of effort and money beyond any learning they may have gained.

[Quantum]

So you have not seen one race this year in which no team got the most out of its car? really? you have heard no driver saying they couldnt get the car into the right window / find the right set up? no body complaining about balance? No point building a car that looks great on paper, but not so great on track, only have to look at the 2022 Mercedes + 1 sec a lap faster awesomeness no side pod its amazing car its going to challanenge for the title - too test day 1 - car is crap??? LOL

Nothing wrong with extracting the most of a your base, everyone spends hours changing the set up of the car.
It is limited to the base you begin with, as in the total performance potential intrinsically in the car. You try get as close to that as possible.

[PlatinumZealot]

I can't believe people are argueing over whether a 7XWDC with over 300 races of experience hasn't given valuable feedback to developing a car

[Henri]

https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1830617194255839587
Lewis still the best at preserving the tires on the grid.. just needs a car with comparable downforce to the McLaren

[Lasssept]

- Hamilton expecting more upgrades and 'performance' from Mercedes

Speaking to the paddock after the Grand Prix at Monza, Hamilton said some updates for the W15 are in the pipeline:

We definitely have [some updates], yeah. There's definitely some performance to come over the course of the next few races. We’ll find out when we get there. We do have small bits, but I don't know if we have anything huge coming. But hopefully, we have some more performance.

I'm hoping that we can make some progress. There'll be some tracks where we'll be a little bit better than we are here. I hope that we have another chance to fight for a win at some stage.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/298964/l ... cedes.html

[214270]

- Hamilton expecting more upgrades and 'performance' from Mercedes

Speaking to the paddock after the Grand Prix at Monza, Hamilton said some updates for the W15 are in the pipeline:

We definitely have [some updates], yeah. There's definitely some performance to come over the course of the next few races. We’ll find out when we get there. We do have small bits, but I don't know if we have anything huge coming. But hopefully, we have some more performance.

I'm hoping that we can make some progress. There'll be some tracks where we'll be a little bit better than we are here. I hope that we have another chance to fight for a win at some stage.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/298964/l ... cedes.html

I’m surprised he’s still in the loop, my thinking was the summer break would be the perfect time to wean him off activities. It demonstrates how much he’s still needed.

[PapayaFan481]

- Hamilton expecting more upgrades and 'performance' from Mercedes

Speaking to the paddock after the Grand Prix at Monza, Hamilton said some updates for the W15 are in the pipeline:

We definitely have [some updates], yeah. There's definitely some performance to come over the course of the next few races. We’ll find out when we get there. We do have small bits, but I don't know if we have anything huge coming. But hopefully, we have some more performance.

I'm hoping that we can make some progress. There'll be some tracks where we'll be a little bit better than we are here. I hope that we have another chance to fight for a win at some stage.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/298964/l ... cedes.html

I’m surprised he’s still in the loop, my thinking was the summer break would be the perfect time to wean him off activities. It demonstrates how much he’s still needed.

I'm sure he's out of some loops, but there's nothing to gain by not telling him that upgrades are on the way and what they are. There'll be a Chinese wall (to use a legal term) in place between him and the 2025 car development though.

[PapayaFan481]

This whole "they didn't listen to Lewis" narrative is so tired.

I wonder, how does any team win without Lewis Hamilton giving them feedback on their cars then?

Who's fault will it be if Merc are comfortably ahead of Ferrari next season?

Mercedes came out them selfs and said they didnt listen to the drivers concerns with the car, and the direction they was heading in with development....... The vids are here in this forum.

I know what they said. The reductionist arguments down to the driving position was too far forward or whatever, were never the silver bullet. It's clear even now they still don't actually understand their car and the new floor is potentially a waste in terms of effort and money beyond any learning they may have gained.

I never said that was a silver bullet, I merely offered an example of just one of the times we know Merc didn't listen to Lewis.

They could have changed it between seasons, they didn't. I am certain there were other things too.

[rijtuig]

I can't believe people are argueing over whether a 7XWDC with over 300 races of experience hasn't given valuable feedback to developing a car

Truly as simple as that.

[AR3-GP]

Hamilton:

In the end, however, we needed a better balance with the car to achieve much more."

https://formu1a.uno/it/allarme-mercedes ... ta-estiva/

The new floor screwed up the balance which also increased tire wear.

[Quantum]

When the team get's it wrong. Teams fault.
When the team get's it right. 300 race Driver feedback bro.