2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[MTudor]

A nice summary that echos my sentiments almost in entirety.

• Overtake had no negative bearing on the race outcome
• Having the faster Mclaren as the lead car improved the chances of a Mclaren win
• Strategy won against the faster cars
• Norris lost himself the race at T2
• 1-2 Would have been locked down if Norris was told not to race Piastri when it was clear early on he didn’t have the pace, he was not going to get Piastri and killed his tyres in vanity

If it was the other way round, Oscar for sure would have been told to manage his tyres and the car behind. Norris was allowed to kill his and McLaren's race to chase a ghost.


https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/did- ... a-verdict/

An article that basically blames everyone except Oscar. How convienent.

So basically Oscar didn't win because those behind him made him ruin his tyres, and where have we seen that before, but isn't that part of racing ? .. Imagine having to deal with the pressure of other cars, including your team mate after you have passed him, daring to try to catch and pass you in a Grand Prix. The very thought. You know Webber should have that in his contract, Lando cannot race Oscar in case it makes Oscars tyres go all hurty.

Lando isn't responsible for how Oscars car is driven. Oscar is. Oscar almost took both cars out himself on lap one just to prove a point, he was clearly faster, he would have passed Lando anyway. No need for risk there. It was a great move, no doubt about that, but it let LeClerc through into second. How did that help either of them ?? .. Lando in second would have helped Oscar a lot more than Charles being there if he did nothing else but hold him up for a few seconds, that would have made all the difference at the end. What's the excuse for Oscar in Zandvoort then and his inability to match his team mate ??

The hype around Oscar is baffling. He is getting soundly beaten by his team mate on everything but apparently because he is ahead on lap one most of the time it just makes him better. It's the last lap that counts. On race finishes he is 10-6 down to Lando so maybe he should think about where he finishes a bit more. He's in his second season but cannot get close to even matching his team mate, let alone beating him. In his second year Lando and Carlos were 97-105 on points, 9-8 on both qualifying and race finishes and they had a podium each. Oscar is 14-2 down in qualifying, 10-6 in races, 10-5 in podiums, 4-0 in poles and 2-1 in race wins. And he had to be let through for that one. If he is going to pull a Lando in his second season he needs to start matching the hype.

That "potential" everyone seems to say he has needs to turn up next season because Lando isn't getting any slower.

You just need eyes to realize that Oscar is on his way to be a better driver than Lando,just think of the rate of his progression.
Last year he wasn't on the same level of speed with Lando,by the end of the season he was matching him and the only think that kept Lando in front was his better tyre management,now he fixed that problem and he displays a racing maturity a la Prost,yes he may not have the speed like Senna(Lando),but he can outsmart him with his racing technique!

[JordanMugen]

That moment offcourse but till then you expect a team play to hold Leclerc and the others.. not to attack and throw you the "Lion" as Alonso says

Why would Norris expect that when Piastri specifically said before the race that he would be attempting to win the race?

[mwillems]

That moment offcourse but till then you expect a team play to hold Leclerc and the others.. not to attack and throw you the "Lion" as Alonso says

Of course is going to cover his embarrassment a little, it's expected. He did try to be a bit more cautious so he didn't force Oscar off the road. The thing is, Oscar did the same with the overtake, he made sure there was enough room for Lando. It was very close, and I'd rather it didn't happen as I said at the time, but you can't let that distract you from the fact that if it isn't Oscar, then it will be someone else. Lando has only himself to blame for it.

I agree with your assessment. Lando is to blame for sure, so I suppose from now on he learned his lesson.

The problem for me, is that this a repeating problem and he's not in my opinion been good enough this year. Not for his experience. He could have been right on Max's tail with the championship if he'd nailed his own mistakes. Forget Strategy although that is definitely a factor, but I just want to talk about the driver. He's just thrown too much away through his own actions. I'd held back on trying to be honest with my assessment before this weekend because of the way people can be in here, but these things are hard to argue with. The mistakes and consistency are not improving.

I will be honest, reading the comments about why Oscar is at fault, which in itself, is fine. It's an opinion. I don't agree with it, but fine. But done in such a way by so many on the forum that there is a refusal to look at cold hard facts which is that the overtake and the other points gone this season are because of Lando's driving and the WDC challenges could have been overcome with less mistakes, that Oscars overtake was only because of Lando's mistake. Watching people turn on Oscar because their favourite driver didn't get gifted something is highly irritating.

Mistakes that have been happening for at least the last 2 seasons. It has long stopped being luck or strategy etc And there's no mention of course about the luck that gifted him the Miami win when talking about the gaps, which was a huge swing of points from Oscar to Lando that amounts to todays Championship gap. Everything good that happens to Lando he deserved and everything bad is someone else fault even with his mistakes. Oscar isn't in the conversation about strategy decisions most of the time. It's everyones mate Lando that has suffered to many, ignoring any misfortune and strategy issues Oscar has had. And it's absolute trash. Lando is where he is because of Lando, and Lando has struggled to beat Max in a faster car for most of the season and struggled to beat his own team mate since the upgrade. None of that is narrative it's things that have happened. The only narrative is that I think this isn't good enough and as a fan I'm not happy with his performance. He should be starting to own this championship as of now. Instead, race after race goes by, opportunities go begging, mistakes keep coming and other people bring upgrades.

[venkyhere]

By being overtaken by Leclerc at the start, McLaren used an early undercut to overtake Leclerc which coupled with high pace they were pushing by fighting led to them thinking only viable strategy is a two stopper.

Mate, the team calls in Norris to pit for 'an early undercut' when that guy is within the DRS window for the first time after a 13-14 laps of tyre preserving waiting game ? When finally your driver has nicely brought in the M tyres (the slight off in lesmo2 in the previous lap was a big nothing, it didn't flat spot the tyres or anything) ?

There was no need to undercut, Norris would've easily passed leClerc, maintained a 2.5 to 3s gap behind Piastri, and both of them would've sailed to a 5-6s lead by lap 20-21, which would've nicely lent itself to a 1-stop.

THE 1st LAP "CRIMINAL OVERTAKE" HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE END RESULT.

[Venturiation]

Of course is going to cover his embarrassment a little, it's expected. He did try to be a bit more cautious so he didn't force Oscar off the road. The thing is, Oscar did the same with the overtake, he made sure there was enough room for Lando. It was very close, and I'd rather it didn't happen as I said at the time, but you can't let that distract you from the fact that if it isn't Oscar, then it will be someone else. Lando has only himself to blame for it.

I agree with your assessment. Lando is to blame for sure, so I suppose from now on he learned his lesson.

The problem for me, is that this a repeating problem and he's not in my opinion been good enough this year. Not for his experience. He could have been right on Max's tail with the championship if he'd nailed his own mistakes. Forget Strategy although that is definitely a factor, but I just want to talk about the driver. He's just thrown too much away through his own actions. I'd held back on trying to be honest with my assessment before this weekend because of the way people can be in here, but these things are hard to argue with. The mistakes and consistency are not improving.

I will be honest, reading the comments about why Oscar is at fault, which in itself, is fine. It's an opinion. I don't agree with it, but fine. But done in such a way by so many on the forum that there is a refusal to look at cold hard facts which is that the overtake and the other points gone this season are because of Lando's driving and the WDC challenges could have been overcome with less mistakes, that Oscars overtake was only because of Lando's mistake. Watching people turn on Oscar because their favourite driver didn't get gifted something is highly irritating.

Mistakes that have been happening for at least the last 2 seasons. It has long stopped being luck or strategy etc And there's no mention of course about the luck that gifted him the Miami win when talking about the gaps, which was a huge swing of points from Oscar to Lando that amounts to todays Championship gap. Everything good that happens to Lando he deserved and everything bad is someone else fault even with his mistakes. Oscar isn't in the conversation about strategy decisions most of the time. It's everyones mate Lando that has suffered to many, ignoring any misfortune and strategy issues Oscar has had. And it's absolute trash. Lando is where he is because of Lando, and Lando has struggled to beat Max in a faster car for most of the season and struggled to beat his own team mate since the upgrade. None of that is narrative it's things that have happened. The only narrative is that I think this isn't good enough and as a fan I'm not happy with his performance. He should be starting to own this championship as of now. Instead, race after race goes by, opportunities go begging, mistakes keep coming and other people bring upgrades.

I agree, before the summer break he throwed 3-5 wins that would have put him in title contention

[fourmula1]

If MCL miss out on the WDC and 2026 is a complete reshuffle - how much will they regret it? It could be decades before they win again.

The way they are operating is great, I love equal opportunity for both drivers, only Merc really operate that way - but Merc could do it because they were dominant. They should be putting everything they have into the WDC and then reset next year.

[Tvetovnato]

If Oscar stayed out he was pretty nailed on for the win, yeah. I don't know if the tyres were that bad or the team and drivers were just risk averse.

I think it was universally agreed by both drivers and teams that they thought one stop would be a futile attempt, but the gamble paid.

I wouldn't call it a strategy error either.

With the gap Oscar had right before he made his final stop, it has to be considered a strategy error. If Leclerc was 1,5 behind or catching him at 0,5 a lap or so, then it would make sense from what they could see at that point in time. But he had a stable gap of over 5 seconds. Waiting it out a few more laps was the right strategy.

It was definitely a mistake, I'm just not sure whether it was only obvious with hindsight.

I for one shouted ”what are you doing, don’t even think about pitting” when they were about to But they will hopefully learn a lot from this.

[mclaren111]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/552793583834426

[Macklaren]

I was out for most of yesterday so didn't get to come in here after watching the race...glad to see the reactions are as expected

A few thoughts that may be a bit different than consensus...
1) calling this a strategy "blunder" is ridiculous. Ferrari had nothing to lose and they took a punt (much like RUS at Spa) and it paid off. The same people who ask McLaren to "look at the data" for rain now want them to make strategy calls by the seat of their pants

2) Oscar was explicitly asked on the radio before the second stop if he thought the tires would make it to the end and he said NO. He even said in the post race interview that it was his call but nobody thought they would last

3) Lando will not want the championship handed to him via team orders...the chattering online class will go after him anyway if he wins the WDC that way. Lando knows that Oscar was faster than him all weekend, he was saying that since Friday and I don't think will be too miffed with the team for not imposing team orders

4) either way, looks like Lando is going to get the team orders anyway from next race. But don't expect it to be a "Oscar, Lando is faster than you" message as much as preferential stop timing, strategy etc. Basically give Lando all the tools to win the WDC on track and if he still can't, that's too bad

[Ben1980]

There was a race not long back when Leclerc undercut soneone. The call was the team shouldn't allow that to happen, they go for the undercut, and it's why would they do that.

I've seen complaints they go to long on stints, and it's now they didn't go long enough.

The team have made dubious calls, but also understandable ones. ( double stacking and softs at Silverstone were both wrong calls) but people like to bash them after the time a lot

Better than being ignored I guess.

The 2 stop in Monza wasn't really wrong, but as soon as they gunned it after the first stop, it was all they had.

[venkyhere]

There was a race not long back when Leclerc undercut soneone. The call was the team shouldn't allow that to happen, they go for the undercut, and it's why would they do that.

I've seen complaints they go to long on stints, and it's now they didn't go long enough.

That's the nature of the game, it's situation specific. where situation is defined by race pace, tyre state, track position, overtake-ability of the track layout, weather, etc etc etc. There can't be a blanket strategy.

How many times have teams like Mercedes/RedBull faced 'poor strategy calls' criticism, over the last 6-7 yrs, say ?
A handful of times.
But similar "big teams" like Ferrari & McLaren, commit the same number of blunders, within a year. That's the difference.

It will be, and ought to, be criticized. The risk v/s reward game (software modelling, gut feel, thinking on one's feet without panic, knowing when the scenario hasn't been modelled into the algorithm hence ignoring what the strategy software is suggesting, etc etc) is yet another skill aspect of a team, just like driving skill, engineering skill.

[Ben1980]

There was a race not long back when Leclerc undercut soneone. The call was the team shouldn't allow that to happen, they go for the undercut, and it's why would they do that.

I've seen complaints they go to long on stints, and it's now they didn't go long enough.

That's the nature of the game, it's situation specific. where situation is defined by race pace, tyre state, track position, overtake-ability of the track layout, weather, etc etc etc. There can't be a blanket strategy.

How many times have teams like Mercedes/RedBull faced 'poor strategy calls' criticism, over the last 6-7 yrs, say ?
A handful of times.
But similar "big teams" like Ferrari & McLaren, commit the same number of blunders, within a year. That's the difference.

It will be, and ought to, be criticized. The risk v/s reward game (software modelling, gut feel, thinking on one's feet without panic, knowing when the scenario hasn't been modelled into the algorithm hence ignoring what the strategy software is suggesting, etc etc) is yet another skill aspect of a team, just like driving skill, engineering skill.

There isn't a blanket strategy, but generally people talk with the benefit of hindsight, a d then act like they are the experts.

But Merc and Red Bull both 2 stopped here, so you would have yo say they also made poor calls?

Very few calls made by mclaren have been clearly wrong, and most understandable. Apart from those mentioned.

[venkyhere]

There isn't a blanket strategy, but generally people talk with the benefit of hindsight, a d then act like they are the experts.

But Merc and Red Bull both 2 stopped here, so you would have yo say they also made poor calls?

Merc and Redbull didn't have the pace, neither have they had the tyre life in the recent past, when track temp is high. Moreover, this a fresh asphalt, low downforce track. It's the obvious thing to do, for them.

I re-iterate, such calls are situations specific. McLaren, in my observation have been making 'lets err on the side of caution' calls - even when they have such a dominant car, with superior pace, and superior tyre life.

[Francis Bacon]

Of course he knew he was being attacked, Oscar had drawn himself up alongside Lando's car along Parabolica in advance of the corner and was slightly ahead when the breaks were applied, it's an attack, he wasn't trying to wave hello

That moment offcourse but till then you expect a team play to hold Leclerc and the others.. not to attack and throw you the "Lion" as Alonso says

What would Senna have done in Piastri's shoes? Full attack. If Piastri had backed down, it would have been submission. Piastri made a statement that he will be a big name. So many number two drivers have regretted their team player actions after their careers. You either hunt or be hunted. This was 100% the right thing to do for Piastri's future, and the team didn't even bother to switch positions.

Senna's statements are not canon.

[Slahinki]

Of course he knew he was being attacked, Oscar had drawn himself up alongside Lando's car along Parabolica in advance of the corner and was slightly ahead when the breaks were applied, it's an attack, he wasn't trying to wave hello

That moment offcourse but till then you expect a team play to hold Leclerc and the others.. not to attack and throw you the "Lion" as Alonso says

What would Senna have done in Piastri's shoes? Full attack. If Piastri had backed down, it would have been submission. Piastri made a statement that he will be a big name. So many number two drivers have regretted their team player actions after their careers. You either hunt or be hunted. This was 100% the right thing to do for Piastri's future, and the team didn't even bother to switch positions.

Senna would probably have crashed his team mate out of the race on purpose and then made up some catchy quote to justify it post-race. Luckily for McLaren Piastri isn't that insane.