2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[FittingMechanics]

I know the blunt part of what you don't want to happen again but the reasons we have a great championship are several.
There are 7 drivers from 4 teams who have been winning, not 4 numero uno drivers battling for wins.
There are 4 teams who are so close in average performance that at each track there is a different team that is fastest, and not by a lot.
If all teams impose Schumacher-style driver orders the spectacle is....let's see, like Austria 2002 "move over Rubens" and the crowd riots. Joe Saward articulates my point perfectly on today's Missed Apex podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w24aOGwxZQ (around 39.00)
"It devalues the drivers championship by winning it with team orders". He did provide a number of exclusions to this which I think are appropriate today.

While I agree that it is better for the sport and entertainment value, you have to take into account that the person leading the championship is a Numero Uno driver who dominates against his teammate, if there was any doubt in pace or championship or Perez ended up ahead they would switch them around immediately.

Moving over like Rubens was forced to do was a foolish thing to do. Ferrari was already well ahead and looked stronger then other teams. Team order that early was not needed. But if it was in the second half of the season, Kimi or David are ahead 70 points and only realistic chance of catching them is to priorities Michael, you can be sure most teams would have done it and the uproar wouldn't be near as hard as in Austria for Rubens.

I am not advocating for Piastri to be told to wave Lando through every time, but the team could have some common sense to do that in specific circumstances. Lando after all did let Piastri through in Hungary after team unnecessarily undercut Piastri.

[Ben1980]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.


When Hamilton lost in 2021 I'm not sure that Mercedes celebrated the WCC


When Hamilton won for Mclaren in 2008 do people really care that Ferrari won the WCC, same with Mika in 1999. You look back at Mika and Lewis as world champions.

The story is the WDC, the story will be having someone overturn a massive deficit, that will be talked about for years to come.

If Max wins this, the whole thing will be forgotten, and it will just become a bookmark in the mighty MV story, winning the title with a pig of a car, and how Mclaren threw it away, even if they win the WCC.

The team is already becoming a bit of a laughing stick, which is a shame as they've achieved do much.

[Ben1980]

I know the blunt part of what you don't want to happen again but the reasons we have a great championship are several.
There are 7 drivers from 4 teams who have been winning, not 4 numero uno drivers battling for wins.
There are 4 teams who are so close in average performance that at each track there is a different team that is fastest, and not by a lot.
If all teams impose Schumacher-style driver orders the spectacle is....let's see, like Austria 2002 "move over Rubens" and the crowd riots. Joe Saward articulates my point perfectly on today's Missed Apex podcast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w24aOGwxZQ (around 39.00)
"It devalues the drivers championship by winning it with team orders". He did provide a number of exclusions to this which I think are appropriate today.

While I agree that it is better for the sport and entertainment value, you have to take into account that the person leading the championship is a Numero Uno driver who dominates against his teammate, if there was any doubt in pace or championship or Perez ended up ahead they would switch them around immediately.

Moving over like Rubens was forced to do was a foolish thing to do. Ferrari was already well ahead and looked stronger then other teams. Team order that early was not needed. But if it was in the second half of the season, Kimi or David are ahead 70 points and only realistic chance of catching them is to priorities Michael, you can be sure most teams would have done it and the uproar wouldn't be near as hard as in Austria for Rubens.

I am not advocating for Piastri to be told to wave Lando through every time, but the team could have some common sense to do that in specific circumstances. Lando after all did let Piastri through in Hungary after team unnecessarily undercut Piastri.

Team orders could be anything.

In the last race, they should have clarified in the first lap whoever gets ahead, hold station for a bit, not risk anything. That's not a ridiculous order. Even swapping then for 2nd and 3rd isn't really anything in the big picture.

Not sure anyone would argue that you give away a clear win for tge points ( though that depends on the race)

Every race seemingly has an element of team orders somewhere for one team, it's not a dirty word.

[Dimond]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.

McLaren's last WCC was 26 years ago, last WDC 16 years ago. I think at this point it doesn't matter for McLaren which title they would win - both are equally prestigious. If this happens, everyone will remember that McLaren won the title that year. The same is the case for Ferrari, but probably not for Mercedes and Red Bull.

[bluechris]

Team orders could be anything.

In the last race, they should have clarified in the first lap whoever gets ahead, hold station for a bit, not risk anything. That's not a ridiculous order. Even swapping then for 2nd and 3rd isn't really anything in the big picture.

Not sure anyone would argue that you give away a clear win for tge points ( though that depends on the race)

Every race seemingly has an element of team orders somewhere for one team, it's not a dirty word.

Which is the norm in almost all the other teams and its completely fair imo... thats why when this huppened in Monza in the 1st lap maked me to yell about it...

Anyway it is what it is... the history will show.

[Ben1980]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.

McLaren's last WCC was 26 years ago, last WDC 16 years ago. I think at this point it doesn't matter for McLaren which title they would win - both are equally prestigious. If this happens, everyone will remember that McLaren won the title that year. The same is the case for Ferrari, but probably not for Mercedes and Red Bull.

I dont think both are equally prestigious, maybe once, but not anymore.

Would Hamilton, the team or many fans swap his title for the WCC? Would the Ferrari of 2008 swap the WCC for a WDC, probably yes.

Though, it becomes a moot point, as if Lando wins the WDC they will win the WCC. They pull each other along.

[FittingMechanics]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.

But we will remember! And the history books.

Team will also feel very rewarded, sponsors will be happy, etc.

[Lucky]

[BMMR61]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.


When Hamilton lost in 2021 I'm not sure that Mercedes celebrated the WCC


When Hamilton won for Mclaren in 2008 do people really care that Ferrari won the WCC, same with Mika in 1999. You look back at Mika and Lewis as world champions.

The story is the WDC, the story will be having someone overturn a massive deficit, that will be talked about for years to come.

If Max wins this, the whole thing will be forgotten, and it will just become a bookmark in the mighty MV story, winning the title with a pig of a car, and how Mclaren threw it away, even if they win the WCC.

The team is already becoming a bit of a laughing stick, which is a shame as they've achieved do much.

While I agree with plenty you say I think it's a shame you think the team are a laughing stock.

I think EVERYONE on the McLaren must prioritise Lando bandwagon don't have a clue about the personal and professional damage it does to the victim of this approach to the sport. I feel the vilification Oscar has received for a great, clean overtake is most unfair, nearly as unfair as the stuff-up of strategy in Hungary that undercut Oscar and put Lando in a terrible dilemma - unfair on both drivers and there should have been changes to the strategy team.

A question. If Max wins the WDC, how many points margin would he need to win by for you (and others) to stop saying McLaren threw it away??? 20? 25?

[BMMR61]

Why have McLaren delayed introduction of this new floor? I imagine it's like they have rolled out other upgrades, certain tracks will reveal the value of the upgrades. So if we assume this is arriving for Singapore (for example) it will be expected to carry performance gains in slow speed corners.

We need to regard Ferrari as a threat at the next two tracks in particular, after that we should be into better territory. But how often have the team proved us all wrong???

[djones]

"A question. If Max wins the WDC, how many points margin would he need to win for you (and others) to stop saying McLaren threw it away??? 20? 25?"

It's going to be a lot more than 25 I imagine. They are probably already on that number.

Every time Piastri finishes ahead of Lando in a situation where it could have been swapped (and not benefitted Max).

Going down the Piastri is a victim route or that prioritising the most prestigious championship is somehow damaging is a weak attitude that does not really have a place in a competitive sport. It is about winning winning winning winning winning. Not coming second or the fun of taking part.

[Ben1980]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.


When Hamilton lost in 2021 I'm not sure that Mercedes celebrated the WCC


When Hamilton won for Mclaren in 2008 do people really care that Ferrari won the WCC, same with Mika in 1999. You look back at Mika and Lewis as world champions.

The story is the WDC, the story will be having someone overturn a massive deficit, that will be talked about for years to come.

If Max wins this, the whole thing will be forgotten, and it will just become a bookmark in the mighty MV story, winning the title with a pig of a car, and how Mclaren threw it away, even if they win the WCC.

The team is already becoming a bit of a laughing stick, which is a shame as they've achieved do much.

While I agree with plenty you say I think it's a shame you think the team are a laughing stock.

I think EVERYONE on the McLaren must prioritise Lando bandwagon don't have a clue about the personal and professional damage it does to the victim of this approach to the sport. I feel the vilification Oscar has received for a great, clean overtake is most unfair, nearly as unfair as the stuff-up of strategy in Hungary that undercut Oscar and put Lando in a terrible dilemma - unfair on both drivers and there should have been changes to the strategy team.

A question. If Max wins the WDC, how many points margin would he need to win by for you (and others) to stop saying McLaren threw it away??? 20? 25?

Personally I don't think they are a laughing stock, but that doesn't mean people aren't. Even the lollipop man videos, which are jokes, was taking the mick with the papaya rules madness.

Do I think Oscar can handle 8 or 9 races playing second fiddle, yep. I'm sure he is mentally strong enough. I think he will come back stronger so he isn't in that position again.

I would have swapped them ladt race, so I would only base any points difference at the end on what can be controlled. So, at present, it's 3 points, that have been thrown away.

[FittingMechanics]

Why have McLaren delayed introduction of this new floor? I imagine it's like they have rolled out other upgrades, certain tracks will reveal the value of the upgrades. So if we assume this is arriving for Singapore (for example) it will be expected to carry performance gains in slow speed corners.

We need to regard Ferrari as a threat at the next two tracks in particular, after that we should be into better territory. But how often have the team proved us all wrong???

I don't think it is true that they delayed introduction. It is just a consequence of being more methodical in bringing them to track.

It seems from the article that McLaren wants to fully understand them and fully develop them and then bring them in as a package instead of trickling them in like many others do (and have problems). Looks like other teams want to bring any potential upgrade to the track but without properly understanding consequences.

Obviously it is easy to say McLaren are doing it right because of the pace they have right now but they've earned our trust.

[Emag]

They're going to sugarcoat it a bit but I have been suspecting of this for a while now. I am almost certain they had things in the pipeline which didn't go through after a more thorough look when the Miami package delivered perhaps a bit more than they expected. Then the subsequent problems that were faced at Ferrari and later on with Mercedes as well, they must have seen that not every upgrade is a "real" upgrade on-track and chasing pure load is not the way to go.

They were quite bullish about the trajectory and the way forward before the season started and it only materialized into a single significant upgrade package that came in Miami where I am certain more were planned. Still, bringing parts that mess up the balance on-track is a lot worse than spending the time and resources to optimize everything so that when the parts do arrive, they bring improvements instead of headaches.

[Big Tea]

I see it as 2 questions.
1, do McLaren want a title
2, is Oscar better off in a championship winning team or an also ran.

To me the answer is easy. Put it all into Lando this year and see where it goes from there. If they consider Oscar the better driver I am sure they will soon make the adjustment.
A title lost is one gone for ever. Who knows what will happen under the new rules