2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Big Tea]

Going down the Piastri is a victim route or that prioritising the most prestigious championship is somehow damaging is a weak attitude that does not really have a place in a competitive sport. It is about winning winning winning winning winning. Not coming second or the fun of taking part.

This statement is ironic given Piastri was precisely trying to win the Italian Grand Prix!

It didn't work out, but would have resulted in Piastri 2 Grand Prix victories and Norris 2 Grand Prix victories which is more advantageous for Piastri than an unbalanced ledger.

I would have swapped them ladt race, so I would only base any points difference at the end on what can be controlled. So, at present, it's 3 points, that have been thrown away.

You assume Piastri has a contract which makes this contractually possible. It may not. So discussions are moot!

(Hungary was correcting an undercut.)

1, do McLaren want a title

Yes they do, the constructors title. For this title, it is best that Piastri scores as many points as possible.

A title lost is one gone for ever.

In that case, how is a ledger of Norris 1 WDC and Piastri 0 WDC advantageous for Piastri? It is not. So it will be until after Piastri is mathematically eliminated that he may provide support, assuming that is the contract.

Which would be the last 2-3 Grands Prix, assuming Verstappen hasn't already clinched the WDC.

We need to learn from Monza and not allow it to happen again

As long as Piastri is not contractually obliged to concede it will happen again or the cars may even collide (stewards will decide the driver predominantly at fault, if any). That's motor racing. Indycar teams operate with up to four cars and no team orders, it's not difficult -- there isn't the farce of drivers waving the designated driver through like in DTM.

If it was a known free for all things would be different for both drivers. From Piastri's end, I doubt Lando would have left a place to be passed on the first corner, so possibly the whole race would have played out differently anyway.
The team can only control what they can control. Knowing they can control undercut or overcut, using the other car as a foil or even sharing information is all going to benefit both drivers and the team.

If they start out a season with two competitive cars and drivers it may need a different t approach, right now I think there is only one way they are going to get either (or both) title


Edit, Yes, I also know Lando would have found it more difficult, but this is my point, they all gain

[BMMR61]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.


When Hamilton lost in 2021 I'm not sure that Mercedes celebrated the WCC


When Hamilton won for Mclaren in 2008 do people really care that Ferrari won the WCC, same with Mika in 1999. You look back at Mika and Lewis as world champions.

The story is the WDC, the story will be having someone overturn a massive deficit, that will be talked about for years to come.

If Max wins this, the whole thing will be forgotten, and it will just become a bookmark in the mighty MV story, winning the title with a pig of a car, and how Mclaren threw it away, even if they win the WCC.

The team is already becoming a bit of a laughing stick, which is a shame as they've achieved do much.

While I agree with plenty you say I think it's a shame you think the team are a laughing stock.

I think EVERYONE on the McLaren must prioritise Lando bandwagon don't have a clue about the personal and professional damage it does to the victim of this approach to the sport. I feel the vilification Oscar has received for a great, clean overtake is most unfair, nearly as unfair as the stuff-up of strategy in Hungary that undercut Oscar and put Lando in a terrible dilemma - unfair on both drivers and there should have been changes to the strategy team.

A question. If Max wins the WDC, how many points margin would he need to win by for you (and others) to stop saying McLaren threw it away??? 20? 25?

Personally I don't think they are a laughing stock, but that doesn't mean people aren't. Even the lollipop man videos, which are jokes, was taking the mick with the papaya rules madness.

Do I think Oscar can handle 8 or 9 races playing second fiddle, yep. I'm sure he is mentally strong enough. I think he will come back stronger so he isn't in that position again.

I would have swapped them ladt race, so I would only base any points difference at the end on what can be controlled. So, at present, it's 3 points, that have been thrown away.

So let's be clear. Oscar has already played the dutiful apprentice getting the less than optimum treatment from the team without complaint. Austria 2023 Lando got the updates, Britain 2023 Lando got a further update, Oscar part of the update. Miami 2024 Lando got the full update, Oscar got half of it. Numerous occasions Oscar has led but Lando was given the first choice of pitstop. I'm sure Oscar is mentally strong, very mentally strong. Strong enough, if there is a clause in his contract, to say in 2025 that he isn't at McLaren to play the dutiful rear gunner for Lando when he has the pace. There are better ways of winning titles than imposing overbearing team orders on drivers. Ferrari sucked at this. McLaren need to be thankful that the kid is very level headed and seems to be a big picture thinker, unlike Lando. All this scornful rhetoric on Oscar the last few weeks has been not only biased but very presumptive in terms of emotive language like "throwing away the championship". I for one will reverse the rhetoric on the McLaren naysayers if Max wins the title in a canter and all the handwringing was as it may prove, presumptuous claptrap, or the WCC comes easily and it was all unnecessary meddling. I'm done on this topic.

[Ben1980]

If Lando has a contract he can't be a number 2, I would expect sonething in it to cover it with doing what's in the best interest of the team.

Oscar is not a number 2, and having him support Lando, especially if it doesn't change anything overall, doesn't make him a number 2.

Swapping a 2nd for 3rd, doesn't really change anything. Swapping a win for 2nd probably wouldn't be done ( depending on the race).

I dont necessarily care for the impact on Oscar if he is asked to help out, I also wouldn't worry about the impact on Lando if this is reversed in a year.

[bluechris]

While I agree with plenty you say I think it's a shame you think the team are a laughing stock.

I think EVERYONE on the McLaren must prioritise Lando bandwagon don't have a clue about the personal and professional damage it does to the victim of this approach to the sport. I feel the vilification Oscar has received for a great, clean overtake is most unfair, nearly as unfair as the stuff-up of strategy in Hungary that undercut Oscar and put Lando in a terrible dilemma - unfair on both drivers and there should have been changes to the strategy team.

A question. If Max wins the WDC, how many points margin would he need to win by for you (and others) to stop saying McLaren threw it away??? 20? 25?

Personally I don't think they are a laughing stock, but that doesn't mean people aren't. Even the lollipop man videos, which are jokes, was taking the mick with the papaya rules madness.

Do I think Oscar can handle 8 or 9 races playing second fiddle, yep. I'm sure he is mentally strong enough. I think he will come back stronger so he isn't in that position again.

I would have swapped them ladt race, so I would only base any points difference at the end on what can be controlled. So, at present, it's 3 points, that have been thrown away.

So let's be clear. Oscar has already played the dutiful apprentice getting the less than optimum treatment from the team without complaint. Austria 2023 Lando got the updates, Britain 2023 Lando got a further update, Oscar part of the update. Miami 2024 Lando got the full update, Oscar got half of it. Numerous occasions Oscar has led but Lando was given the first choice of pitstop. I'm sure Oscar is mentally strong, very mentally strong. Strong enough, if there is a clause in his contract, to say in 2025 that he isn't at McLaren to play the dutiful rear gunner for Lando when he has the pace. There are better ways of winning titles than imposing overbearing team orders on drivers. Ferrari sucked at this. McLaren need to be thankful that the kid is very level headed and seems to be a big picture thinker, unlike Lando. All this scornful rhetoric on Oscar the last few weeks has been not only biased but very presumptive in terms of emotive language like "throwing away the championship". I for one will reverse the rhetoric on the McLaren naysayers if Max wins the title in a canter and all the handwringing was as it may prove, presumptuous claptrap, or the WCC comes easily and it was all unnecessary meddling. I'm done on this topic.

Which is correct imo. If the team dont have the time for 2 full packages or for any reason, you give the new parts to the old fart in the team because you speak the same language with him after all this years and you fully trust him.

[Slahinki]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.


When Hamilton lost in 2021 I'm not sure that Mercedes celebrated the WCC


When Hamilton won for Mclaren in 2008 do people really care that Ferrari won the WCC, same with Mika in 1999. You look back at Mika and Lewis as world champions.

The story is the WDC, the story will be having someone overturn a massive deficit, that will be talked about for years to come.

If Max wins this, the whole thing will be forgotten, and it will just become a bookmark in the mighty MV story, winning the title with a pig of a car, and how Mclaren threw it away, even if they win the WCC.

The team is already becoming a bit of a laughing stick, which is a shame as they've achieved do much.

While I agree with plenty you say I think it's a shame you think the team are a laughing stock.

I think EVERYONE on the McLaren must prioritise Lando bandwagon don't have a clue about the personal and professional damage it does to the victim of this approach to the sport. I feel the vilification Oscar has received for a great, clean overtake is most unfair, nearly as unfair as the stuff-up of strategy in Hungary that undercut Oscar and put Lando in a terrible dilemma - unfair on both drivers and there should have been changes to the strategy team.

A question. If Max wins the WDC, how many points margin would he need to win by for you (and others) to stop saying McLaren threw it away??? 20? 25?

Just as you seem to have no clue about the damage it could cause to the relationship between McLaren and Lando should the team miss out on the WDC by a handful of points just because they spent the majority of the season blindly refusing it was a possibility. If Piastri is unable to handle helping the team win it's first drivers championship in 16 years, he honestly doesn't deserve the seat.

[Slahinki]

Personally I don't think they are a laughing stock, but that doesn't mean people aren't. Even the lollipop man videos, which are jokes, was taking the mick with the papaya rules madness.

Do I think Oscar can handle 8 or 9 races playing second fiddle, yep. I'm sure he is mentally strong enough. I think he will come back stronger so he isn't in that position again.

I would have swapped them ladt race, so I would only base any points difference at the end on what can be controlled. So, at present, it's 3 points, that have been thrown away.

So let's be clear. Oscar has already played the dutiful apprentice getting the less than optimum treatment from the team without complaint. Austria 2023 Lando got the updates, Britain 2023 Lando got a further update, Oscar part of the update. Miami 2024 Lando got the full update, Oscar got half of it. Numerous occasions Oscar has led but Lando was given the first choice of pitstop. I'm sure Oscar is mentally strong, very mentally strong. Strong enough, if there is a clause in his contract, to say in 2025 that he isn't at McLaren to play the dutiful rear gunner for Lando when he has the pace. There are better ways of winning titles than imposing overbearing team orders on drivers. Ferrari sucked at this. McLaren need to be thankful that the kid is very level headed and seems to be a big picture thinker, unlike Lando. All this scornful rhetoric on Oscar the last few weeks has been not only biased but very presumptive in terms of emotive language like "throwing away the championship". I for one will reverse the rhetoric on the McLaren naysayers if Max wins the title in a canter and all the handwringing was as it may prove, presumptuous claptrap, or the WCC comes easily and it was all unnecessary meddling. I'm done on this topic.

Which is correct imo. If the team dont have the time for 2 full packages or for any reason, you give the new parts to the old fart in the team because you speak the same language with him after all this years and you fully trust him.

Yeah, if you have limited parts available do you give them to the rookie or the guy that has netted the team the most points since what, Hamilton? was in the team. It's a no-brainer.

[Big Tea]

Winning the WCC is great, for the team, all very positive and will be a good news story. It will also be almost instantly forgetable to many. The prestige is the WDC.


When Hamilton lost in 2021 I'm not sure that Mercedes celebrated the WCC


When Hamilton won for Mclaren in 2008 do people really care that Ferrari won the WCC, same with Mika in 1999. You look back at Mika and Lewis as world champions.

The story is the WDC, the story will be having someone overturn a massive deficit, that will be talked about for years to come.

If Max wins this, the whole thing will be forgotten, and it will just become a bookmark in the mighty MV story, winning the title with a pig of a car, and how Mclaren threw it away, even if they win the WCC.

The team is already becoming a bit of a laughing stick, which is a shame as they've achieved do much.

While I agree with plenty you say I think it's a shame you think the team are a laughing stock.

I think EVERYONE on the McLaren must prioritise Lando bandwagon don't have a clue about the personal and professional damage it does to the victim of this approach to the sport. I feel the vilification Oscar has received for a great, clean overtake is most unfair, nearly as unfair as the stuff-up of strategy in Hungary that undercut Oscar and put Lando in a terrible dilemma - unfair on both drivers and there should have been changes to the strategy team.

A question. If Max wins the WDC, how many points margin would he need to win by for you (and others) to stop saying McLaren threw it away??? 20? 25?

Just as you seem to have no clue about the damage it could cause to the relationship between McLaren and Lando should the team miss out on the WDC by a handful of points just because they spent the majority of the season blindly refusing it was a possibility. If Piastri is unable to handle helping the team win it's first drivers championship in 16 years, he honestly doesn't deserve the seat.

The team is not in it to further the career of one driver (either one) so common sense should prevail. If either driver thought they would do better in a different team, they would do what's best for them. Same goes for the team, maximise the result at the expense of whoever. They will all gain by a team championship and it will look good on them come contract talks

[bananapeel23]

Just as you seem to have no clue about the damage it could cause to the relationship between McLaren and Lando should the team miss out on the WDC by a handful of points just because they spent the majority of the season blindly refusing it was a possibility. If Piastri is unable to handle helping the team win it's first drivers championship in 16 years, he honestly doesn't deserve the seat.

This is my theory

McLaren still sees Piastri as the better prospect in the long term. Lando is already great, but ultimately McLaren sees him as someone who will only ever be maybe a top 5 driver. They want a long term prospect with the potential to be the best driver outright. They want a Verstappen or Hamilton or Alonso or Schumacher. Lando is a Button or Rosberg. Amazing in his own right and plenty capable of winning a championship in the right machinery, perhaps even capable of beating a Verstappen or Hamilton in the same car over a season, given the right circumstances, but on average still a slight step below them.

For McLaren, Piastri is that guy. Their main concern is to encourage his development into the driver they believe he CAN become, which is an Alonso type driver. The last thing they want to do is to make him disillusioned with the team in favour of a guy with lower potential, simply because he is better in the present. I wouldn't even be surprised if McLaren aren't even THAT afraid of losing Norris, with Bortoleto clearly being at least in the same ballpark as Norris in terms of potential.

Basically the problem for McLaren is they have to straddle the line of not making Piastri disillusioned, while still attempting to go for the WDC. I believe that they felt it was too early to tell Piastri he was the 2nd driver with 9 races to go and Lando 70 points behind Verstappen. McLaren will make Piastri the 2nd driver whenever they feel the chance of winning the WDC with Norris as a designated first driver is high enough to warrant the risk of pissing Piastri off. (which will obviously decrease the more likely the WDC appears, assuming Piastri is rational)

Remember 2007 where McLaren also had 2 number 1 drivers? Alonso and Hamilton were both way too good to accept being relegated to second driver. When they attempted to make Alonso second driver and give Hamilton strategy priority, Alonso just left. The season ended with both drivers losing the WDC by 1 point. McLaren lost perhaps the greatest lineup in F1 history (arguably alongside Senna/Prost) becuase they attempted to play politics too early, thus Alonso was disillusioned. Then they did the same in 2012, where they played politics with Button/Hamilton, leading to Hamilton leaving as well. McLaren does not want to risk playing politics too early, becuase they don't want to lose their main guy. Perhaps if they had waited to give priority until later on in 2007, Alonso or Hamilton would have been more clearly ahead, and one would have tolerated being relegated to 2nd driver for the last few races. Instead they banke don Hamilton, lost Alonso AND lost the championship.

After Monza may well have been where that threshold where Piastri will submit to a second driver role was crossed. If not, it's likely to be after Baku or Singapore if Lando keeps reeling in Verstappen by 8 or more points per weekend.

[mclaren111]

Just as you seem to have no clue about the damage it could cause to the relationship between McLaren and Lando should the team miss out on the WDC by a handful of points just because they spent the majority of the season blindly refusing it was a possibility. If Piastri is unable to handle helping the team win it's first drivers championship in 16 years, he honestly doesn't deserve the seat.

McLaren still sees Piastri as the better prospect in the long term. Lando is already great, but ultimately McLaren sees him as someone who will only ever be maybe a top 5 driver. They want a long term prospect with the potential to be the best driver outright. They want a Verstappen or Hamilton or Alonso or Schumacher. Lando is a Button or Rosberg. Amazing in his own right and plenty capable of winning a championship in the right machinery, perhaps even capable of beating a Verstappen or Hamilton in the same car over a season, given the right circumstances, but on average still a slight step below them.

For McLaren, Piastri is that guy. Their main concern is to encourage his development into the driver they believe he CAN become, which is an Alonso type driver. The last thing they want to do is to make him disillusioned with the team in favour of a guy with lower potential, simply because he is better in the present. I wouldn't even be surprised if McLaren aren't even THAT afraid of losing Norris, with Bortoleto clearly being at least in the same ballpark as Norris in terms of potential.

Basically the problem for McLaren is they have to straddle the line of not making Piastri disillusioned, while still attempting to go for the WDC. I believe that they felt it was too early to tell Piastri he was the 2nd driver with 9 races to go and Lando 70 points behind Verstappen. McLaren will make Piastri the 2nd driver whenever they feel the chance of winning the WDC with Norris as a designated first driver is high enough to warrant the risk of pissing Piastri off. (which will obviously decrease the more likely the WDC appears, assuming Piastri is rational)

Monza may well have been where that threshold was crossed. If not, it's likely to be in Baku or Singapore if Lando keeps reeling in Verstappen by 8 or more points per weekend.

[Seerix]

There seem to be a lot of theories pulled out of the hat going on here, wow People claiming to know what drivers/team/CEO are thinking, talking in the name of 'all McLaren fans' instead of just themselves, weird stuff.

[Slahinki]

Just as you seem to have no clue about the damage it could cause to the relationship between McLaren and Lando should the team miss out on the WDC by a handful of points just because they spent the majority of the season blindly refusing it was a possibility. If Piastri is unable to handle helping the team win it's first drivers championship in 16 years, he honestly doesn't deserve the seat.

McLaren still sees Piastri as the better prospect in the long term. Lando is already great, but ultimately McLaren sees him as someone who will only ever be maybe a top 5 driver. They want a long term prospect with the potential to be the best driver outright. They want a Verstappen or Hamilton or Alonso or Schumacher. Lando is a Button or Rosberg. Amazing in his own right and plenty capable of winning a championship in the right machinery, perhaps even capable of beating a Verstappen or Hamilton in the same car over a season, given the right circumstances, but on average still a slight step below them.

For McLaren, Piastri is that guy. Their main concern is to encourage his development into the driver they believe he CAN become, which is an Alonso type driver. The last thing they want to do is to make him disillusioned with the team in favour of a guy with lower potential, simply because he is better in the present. I wouldn't even be surprised if McLaren aren't even THAT afraid of losing Norris, with Bortoleto clearly being at least in the same ballpark as Norris in terms of potential.

Basically the problem for McLaren is they have to straddle the line of not making Piastri disillusioned, while still attempting to go for the WDC. I believe that they felt it was too early to tell Piastri he was the 2nd driver with 9 races to go and Lando 70 points behind Verstappen. McLaren will make Piastri the 2nd driver whenever they feel the chance of winning the WDC with Norris as a designated first driver is high enough to warrant the risk of pissing Piastri off. (which will obviously decrease the more likely the WDC appears, assuming Piastri is rational)

Remember 2007 where McLaren also had 2 number 1 drivers? Alonso and Hamilton were both way too good to accept being relegated to second driver. When they attempted to make Alonso second driver and give Hamilton strategy priority, Alonso just left. The season ended with both drivers losing the WDC by 1 point. McLaren lost perhaps the greatest lineup in F1 history (arguably alongside Senna/Prost) becuase they attempted to play politics too early, thus Alonso was disillusioned. Then they did the same in 2012, where they played politics with Button/Hamilton, leading to Hamilton leaving as well. McLaren does not want to risk playing politics too early, becuase they don't want to lose their main guy. Perhaps if they had waited to give priority until later on in 2007, Alonso or Hamilton would have been more clearly ahead, and one would have tolerated being relegated to 2nd driver for the last few races. Instead they banke don Hamilton, lost Alonso AND lost the championship.

After Monza may well have been where that threshold where Piastri will submit to a second driver role was crossed. If not, it's likely to be after Baku or Singapore if Lando keeps reeling in Verstappen by 8 or more points per weekend.

Lmao, now you're just making stuff up.

Regarding your 2007 point, yes, they messed up in many different ways. But the half-way point of the season is as good a place as any to start backing the driver that's ahead in the championship, and that moment passed a while ago now.

[bauc]

What are your expectations about BAKU? Such a weird track that one.....

[bananapeel23]

Lmao, now you're just making stuff up.

Regarding your 2007 point, yes, they messed up in many different ways. But the half-way point of the season is as good a place as any to start backing the driver that's ahead in the championship, and that moment passed a while ago now.

Again, the idea of backing a driver hinges on a risk:reward calculation.

If you aren't afraid of losing the driver that is behind, then sure, you can even give team orders to give up a win from round 6 in the championship. Ferrari could do that in Austria 2002 because they felt there wasn't any risk of losing Barrichello, and even if he left they would have been able to replace him. If you have a monstrous lineup like Alonso - Hamilton, the threshold where the risk:reward equilibrium is comes way later, perhaps even in the last race, if at all. McLaren got the calculation wrong and looked stupid for it.

Yes, it gets easier to relegate a driver to second driver as the gap in the championship grows, but it isn't just about maximizing your driver's chance of winning the WDC. Piastri knows he isn't going to be winning it, that isn't a factor. Piastri might still demand some respect from the team even if he won't win it, simply because he wants the team to show that they care for him and that Norris/McLaren can't walk all over him.

Piastri will let McLaren prioritize Norris eventually, but McLaren felt it wasn't that time just yet, and that is fairly reasonable given that they clearly value Piastri above Norris in the long term.

What are your expectations about BAKU? Such a weird track that one.....

McLaren = Ferrari >> Red Bull = Mercedes in Sector 1.
Ferrari >> McLaren > Mercedes > Red Bull in Sector 2
McLaren > Red Bull => Ferrari > Mercedes in Sector 3

Leclerc pole, Verstappen between 4th and 7th in quali. Both McLarens in the top 4.

Leclerc or Norris ends up winning the race. Red Bull will do REALLY poorly in the race.

[venkyhere]

while this looks mighty impressive on first glance, the real 'data' in this is :

- NOR has scored an average 19/5 = 3.8 points more than VER over last 5 races (WDC fight)
- despite both McLaren drivers scoring equally, the team has scored (170-116)/5 = 10.8 points more than Ferrari over last 5 races (WCC fight).
If we extrapolate this 'trend' for the remainder of the season, mathematically speaking, WDC is difficult to achieve, WCC is in the bag.

[mwillems]

while this looks mighty impressive on first glance, the real 'data' in this is :

- NOR has scored an average 19/5 = 3.8 points more than VER over last 5 races (WDC fight)
- despite both McLaren drivers scoring equally, the team has scored (170-116)/5 = 10.8 points more than Ferrari over last 5 races (WCC fight).
If we extrapolate this 'trend' for the remainder of the season, mathematically speaking, WDC is difficult to achieve, WCC is in the bag.

WDC was always an outside chance. Until the summer break Max was extending his lead over Lando. Looks a bit easier now but it's still a big ask. WCC is still a fight because anyone can develop ahead of us.