2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Is Norris McLaren's own Bottas in the first laps?

[geogate]

not sure what you expect people to say to that - its a pretty bad record.
You just having a bit of a troll are you?
Bad starts were not something I associated with Norris before this season ... my general impression was that he often got decent starts

[Jurgen von Diaz]

not sure what you expect people to say to that - its a pretty bad record.
You just having a bit of a troll are you?
Bad starts were not something I associated with Norris before this season ... my general impression was that he often got decent starts

Troll? Bad starts have always been an issue with Norris.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/6eJ9bDLqwk

[mwillems]

not sure what you expect people to say to that - its a pretty bad record.
You just having a bit of a troll are you?
Bad starts were not something I associated with Norris before this season ... my general impression was that he often got decent starts

Troll? Bad starts have always been an issue with Norris.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/6eJ9bDLqwk

If you remove the outliers from contact in 23 and 21, then his stats are typically like 22, where he loses a few places on average, maybe .25 places per start, but on average he gains as often as he loses ground. So I wouldn't call it bad (Somewhat of an overstatement), but definite room for improvement, it's just not what you might term championship level. It probably is noteworthy that he hasn't been so far forward that gaining places would have been hard.

It would be interesting to see the same data for Charles, Carlos, Max, Oscar, Lewis and George over the same period to get some context. Max stats probably won't be that relevant, but the other drivers can add some context to Lando's numbers.

it's worth breaking the numbers down by start position because naturally, the further forward you are the less chance there is to gain ground.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

not sure what you expect people to say to that - its a pretty bad record.
You just having a bit of a troll are you?
Bad starts were not something I associated with Norris before this season ... my general impression was that he often got decent starts

Troll? Bad starts have always been an issue with Norris.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/6eJ9bDLqwk

If you remove the outliers from contact in 23 and 21, then his stats are typically like 22, where he loses a few places on average, maybe .25 places per start, but on average he gains as often as he loses ground. So I wouldn't call it bad (Somewhat of an overstatement), but definite room for improvement, it's just not what you might term championship level. It probably is noteworthy that he hasn't been so far forward that gaining places would have been hard.

It would be interesting to see the same data for Charles, Carlos, Max, Oscar, Lewis and George over the same period to get some context. Max stats probably won't be that relevant, but the other drivers can add some context to Lando's numbers.

it's worth breaking the numbers down by start position because naturally, the further forward you are the less chance there is to gain ground.

Norris clearly has good raw speed, but when other cars come into play, he is not the strongest.

[Emag]

It's funny because when I said earlier on the year that this is one of Lando's worst seasons discounting his debut year, I was called a pessimist. By any objective metric, Lando has been underperforming throughout and I would say the magnitude of his "imperfection" has been growing as the season progressed because a bad weekend no longer means just being outside the podium. The flaws are more apparent for everyone to see.

All the blunders on lap 1, the hastiness with Max at Austria, the qualifying errors, mistakes on critical moments and the list goes on and on ...

It has just been piling up to the point where it's difficult to objectively defend his inability to capitalize on many chances that went his way. A more consistent driver would have been closer to P1 in the WDC with the car Lando has had, if not lead it. Bad seasons happen to everyone though, so one can't put too much blame but it's just a shame that it happens when the car is good enough to win both titles. There's no guarantee he will have a second chance.

[Lucky]

It's funny because when I said earlier on the year that this is one of Lando's worst seasons discounting his debut year, I was called a pessimist. By any objective metric, Lando has been underperforming throughout and I would say the magnitude of his "imperfection" has been growing as the season progressed because a bad weekend no longer means just being outside the podium. The flaws are more apparent for everyone to see.

All the blunders on lap 1, the hastiness with Max at Austria, the qualifying errors, mistakes on critical moments and the list goes on and on ...

It has just been piling up to the point where it's difficult to objectively defend his inability to capitalize on many chances that went his way. A more consistent driver would have been closer to P1 in the WDC with the car Lando has had, if not lead it. Bad seasons happen to everyone though, so one can't put too much blame but it's just a shame that it happens when the car is good enough to win both titles. There's no guarantee he will have a second chance.

What is Piastri's level then? After all, he loses very confidently to a bad Lando in qualifying and racing

[Jurgen von Diaz]

It's funny because when I said earlier on the year that this is one of Lando's worst seasons discounting his debut year, I was called a pessimist. By any objective metric, Lando has been underperforming throughout and I would say the magnitude of his "imperfection" has been growing as the season progressed because a bad weekend no longer means just being outside the podium. The flaws are more apparent for everyone to see.

All the blunders on lap 1, the hastiness with Max at Austria, the qualifying errors, mistakes on critical moments and the list goes on and on ...

It has just been piling up to the point where it's difficult to objectively defend his inability to capitalize on many chances that went his way. A more consistent driver would have been closer to P1 in the WDC with the car Lando has had, if not lead it. Bad seasons happen to everyone though, so one can't put too much blame but it's just a shame that it happens when the car is good enough to win both titles. There's no guarantee he will have a second chance.

What is Piastri's level then? After all, he loses very confidently to a bad Lando in qualifying and racing

I think Lando's performance ceiling might be getting reached while Oscar is building experience and improving. Oscar already is showing more balls in tire-to-tire battling. If Oscar reaches Lando's pace, he is going to have a hard time.

[Lucky]

It's funny because when I said earlier on the year that this is one of Lando's worst seasons discounting his debut year, I was called a pessimist. By any objective metric, Lando has been underperforming throughout and I would say the magnitude of his "imperfection" has been growing as the season progressed because a bad weekend no longer means just being outside the podium. The flaws are more apparent for everyone to see.

All the blunders on lap 1, the hastiness with Max at Austria, the qualifying errors, mistakes on critical moments and the list goes on and on ...

It has just been piling up to the point where it's difficult to objectively defend his inability to capitalize on many chances that went his way. A more consistent driver would have been closer to P1 in the WDC with the car Lando has had, if not lead it. Bad seasons happen to everyone though, so one can't put too much blame but it's just a shame that it happens when the car is good enough to win both titles. There's no guarantee he will have a second chance.

What is Piastri's level then? After all, he loses very confidently to a bad Lando in qualifying and racing

I think Lando's performance ceiling might be getting reached while Oscar is building experience and improving. Oscar already is showing more balls in tire-to-tire battling. If Oscar reaches Lando's pace, he is going to have a hard time.

Maybe it's not Oscar who works better with tires, but McLaren who has become better at protecting tires. On tracks where there is a lot of tire wear, Oscar still has problems.
Oscar is only 1.5 years younger than Lando, so they both haven't reached the ceiling.

[mwillems]

Lando has been making mistakes for at least two years. The problem is as much the tendency to build up the fan favourite and then knock him down when he isn't hitting the unreasonable expectations as it is the driving itself.

I've been called out many times in that period for having a grounded and sensible opinion instead of being a "fan" and explaining it away like it never happened. The main point is that he isn't in the same class as Lewis, Max or Alonso and still has not reached any of their levels.

[Ben1980]

I dobt ever recall him a being a bad starter, in fact I recall a discussion about him being cautious which was helping him. As, generally he was starting further back for most of his career. But, rarely caught up in those first lap incidents.

Maybe he has gone from being cautious to being a bit to reckless. But, I dobt think he has suddenly become a terrible starter this season.

[Emag]

It's funny because when I said earlier on the year that this is one of Lando's worst seasons discounting his debut year, I was called a pessimist. By any objective metric, Lando has been underperforming throughout and I would say the magnitude of his "imperfection" has been growing as the season progressed because a bad weekend no longer means just being outside the podium. The flaws are more apparent for everyone to see.

All the blunders on lap 1, the hastiness with Max at Austria, the qualifying errors, mistakes on critical moments and the list goes on and on ...

It has just been piling up to the point where it's difficult to objectively defend his inability to capitalize on many chances that went his way. A more consistent driver would have been closer to P1 in the WDC with the car Lando has had, if not lead it. Bad seasons happen to everyone though, so one can't put too much blame but it's just a shame that it happens when the car is good enough to win both titles. There's no guarantee he will have a second chance.

What is Piastri's level then? After all, he loses very confidently to a bad Lando in qualifying and racing

I have never praised Piastri either. I have given him the benefit of the doubt since this is only his second year in F1 and in Lando's second year in F1 he got outscored by Carlos. But Oscar hasn't exactly been mega-impressive when you take into consideration how many races this year he has been struggling with tire wear when Lando has had race-leading pace.

Nevertheless Lando has always been a great qualifier (generally speaking), even in his rookie season. Although this year he has been making more mistakes than usual in qualifying too.

Qualifying isn't everything though. George is destroying Lewis in their respective head-to-head. Even though people are saying this is one of the worst Lewis seasons in a while, he still is some 40 points ahead in the standings.

But the fact that Lando hasn't been able to outscore Oscar, the rookie teammate in his second year, in the last 8 or so races tells you everything.

[Lucky]

It's funny because when I said earlier on the year that this is one of Lando's worst seasons discounting his debut year, I was called a pessimist. By any objective metric, Lando has been underperforming throughout and I would say the magnitude of his "imperfection" has been growing as the season progressed because a bad weekend no longer means just being outside the podium. The flaws are more apparent for everyone to see.

All the blunders on lap 1, the hastiness with Max at Austria, the qualifying errors, mistakes on critical moments and the list goes on and on ...

It has just been piling up to the point where it's difficult to objectively defend his inability to capitalize on many chances that went his way. A more consistent driver would have been closer to P1 in the WDC with the car Lando has had, if not lead it. Bad seasons happen to everyone though, so one can't put too much blame but it's just a shame that it happens when the car is good enough to win both titles. There's no guarantee he will have a second chance.

What is Piastri's level then? After all, he loses very confidently to a bad Lando in qualifying and racing

I have never praised Piastri either. I have given him the benefit of the doubt since this is only his second year in F1 and in Lando's second year in F1 he got outscored by Carlos. But Oscar hasn't exactly been mega-impressive when you take into consideration how many races this year he has been struggling with tire wear when Lando has had race-leading pace.

Nevertheless Lando has always been a great qualifier (generally speaking), even in his rookie season. Although this year he has been making more mistakes than usual in qualifying too.

Qualifying isn't everything though. George is destroying Lewis in their respective head-to-head. Even though people are saying this is one of the worst Lewis seasons in a while, he still is some 40 points ahead in the standings.

But the fact that Lando hasn't been able to outscore Oscar, the rookie teammate in his second year, in the last 8 or so races tells you everything.

13-3 score in qualifying, Lando is not doing well in qualifying.
241-197 race score, Lando does not race well.
The worst things about McLaren this season are strategists and management, and they are responsible for most of the blame for Norris being so far away from Max.

[mwillems]

What is Piastri's level then? After all, he loses very confidently to a bad Lando in qualifying and racing

I have never praised Piastri either. I have given him the benefit of the doubt since this is only his second year in F1 and in Lando's second year in F1 he got outscored by Carlos. But Oscar hasn't exactly been mega-impressive when you take into consideration how many races this year he has been struggling with tire wear when Lando has had race-leading pace.

Nevertheless Lando has always been a great qualifier (generally speaking), even in his rookie season. Although this year he has been making more mistakes than usual in qualifying too.

Qualifying isn't everything though. George is destroying Lewis in their respective head-to-head. Even though people are saying this is one of the worst Lewis seasons in a while, he still is some 40 points ahead in the standings.

But the fact that Lando hasn't been able to outscore Oscar, the rookie teammate in his second year, in the last 8 or so races tells you everything.

13-3 score in qualifying, Lando is not doing well in qualifying.
241-197 race score, Lando does not race well.
The worst things about McLaren this season are strategists and management, and they are responsible for most of the blame for Norris being so far away from Max.

Even as it is, it is close. So close that if the safety car hadn't swapped Lando and Oscar's fortunes in Miami they'd be on the same points.

In any case, pointing fingers at Oscar doesn't make Lando a better driver. If he does win the WDC he'll be one of the weakest champions of the sport.

Lando is a better driver than Oscar today. But Oscar has racing instincts that Lando appears not to have, and for the future, this is where my money is at now. 7 seasons should be enough to iron out the flaws.

[Henri]

https://x.com/F1GuyDan/status/1830931245636952511 oscar has bern excellent in the past 8 races nealy matching norris for points.. let's see who outscores who in the next 8 races