Flexiwings 2024

[leblanc]

Least the teams have noted it. Hopefully they can protest it.



DOes anyone have any footage of 'slower' races?

Zandvoort would be an interesting one, since they brought new wings there.

indeed, the same race piastri blamed his 4th place on dirty air

[leblanc]

Im not a technical person, the mini drs, It looks like when the rear wing is under full compression/load it sags, the drs activation arm not being attached to the rear wing structure doesnt move so it holds the drs wing in place at the front which makes it look as if the drs is activating when in reality the rest of the rear wing is flexing beneath it. Is this the gist of it.

the leading edge is deflecting upward

edit: and the trailing edge is flattening

[Watto]

At the end of the day I guess it comes across as very smart by McLaren probably just exploiting a great areas in the rules

Some of it feels very close to areas what the FIA tried to clamp down on, RBR flexing rear wing a few years ago. Merc a a DSQ? for their rear wing gap being 1mm larger than it should iirc.


But its within the grey area of the rules - the while 'spirit of the rules' so it it.

[catent]

Nice diagram.

So the McLaren wing is actually a disadvantage for speed.

Just think how fast their car will be when they fix it.

No, it is absolutely in no way a disadvantage; it’s entirely and significantly advantageous.

The reason McLaren’s DRS delta is lower is because their speed without DRS is artificially higher due to the mini-DRS. Additionally, McLaren are almost certainly carrying relatively more downforce because they’re able to get the benefits of a fatter wing through slow-speed while shedding that drag in higher speed sections.

There is nothing disadvantageous about that wing at all. McLaren’s DRS delta and overall top speed reflected in that image is entirely part-and-parcel with the flexible wings and the advantages they bring.

[FNTC]

They can run a larger rear wing thats helps tyre deg and slow corners, since it leans back and becomes less agressive at speed, and also opens up the DRS gap on the sides. So the top speed is still good. This is pure cheating. They banned Aston's front wing last year behind the scenes for flexing. I don't see how this should be accepted. If FIA does accept it, the other teams will do the same.

[bluechris]

They can run a larger rear wing thats helps tyre deg and slow corners, since it leans back and becomes less agressive at speed, and also opens up the DRS gap on the sides. So the top speed is still good. This is pure cheating. They banned Aston's front wing last year behind the scenes for flexing. I don't see how this should be accepted. If FIA does accept it, the other teams will do the same.

The trick they use in my eyes is very difficult to copy in this short time till the end of the championship. I don't know if they accidentally stepped on it or they really wanted that but seems much more difficult to make than the front wing flexing.

[Watto]

They can run a larger rear wing thats helps tyre deg and slow corners, since it leans back and becomes less agressive at speed, and also opens up the DRS gap on the sides. So the top speed is still good. This is pure cheating. They banned Aston's front wing last year behind the scenes for flexing. I don't see how this should be accepted. If FIA does accept it, the other teams will do the same.

The trick they use in my eyes is very difficult to copy in this short time till the end of the championship. I don't know if they accidentally stepped on it or they really wanted that but seems much more difficult to make than the front wing flexing.

Isn't this simular to what Red Bull did a few years ago and the FIA put a stop to it. Probably without McLarens strange flap behavior

I would say it is very deliberate. But agree very hard to replicate properly with limited development time.



McLaren I think here have just been very smart in pushing the rules, Probably not what the rules intention but found something very grey in the wording somewhere they though they could exploit.

[Rikhart]

They can run a larger rear wing thats helps tyre deg and slow corners, since it leans back and becomes less agressive at speed, and also opens up the DRS gap on the sides. So the top speed is still good. This is pure cheating. They banned Aston's front wing last year behind the scenes for flexing. I don't see how this should be accepted. If FIA does accept it, the other teams will do the same.

The trick they use in my eyes is very difficult to copy in this short time till the end of the championship. I don't know if they accidentally stepped on it or they really wanted that but seems much more difficult to make than the front wing flexing.

Isn't this simular to what Red Bull did a few years ago and the FIA put a stop to it. Probably without McLarens strange flap behavior

I would say it is very deliberate. But agree very hard to replicate properly with limited development time.



McLaren I think here have just been very smart in pushing the rules, Probably not what the rules intention but found something very grey in the wording somewhere they though they could exploit.

The rules for this are black and white, there is no grey anywhere. This is blatant cheating.

[bananapeel23]

Wow that wing really deflects a whole lot more than I thought it did! That gap must be something like 25mm wider than it should be, probably more in the corners. Does the lower element also deflect like that when DRS is open? In that case we would be dealing with something like a net 105mm DRS opening compared to the 80mm stipulated by the regulations. Absolutely ridiculous and I'm surprised we haven't seen something like this earlier.

Like I can't even hold it against McLaren. They're pulling every cheap trick to make the car as fast as it can be and it's clearly paying dividends, but I wonder if that means they would get leapfrogged if Red Bull and Ferrari brought similar wings? It's probably too late in the season for Ferrari and Red Bull to do so, but perhaps next year. I'm really curious how much McLaren is gaining from them and if they would even be the best without them. Ferrari looks properly scary now that they've seemingly resolved their mid-season struggles and I'm fairly confident they would be better than McLaren if they had the same wings or if a TD was issued to ban the flexiwings.

[CMSMJ1]

It's very clever and as always with these things - really obvious and simple too.

I think the regulations are going to struggle to always keep up and I would personally prefer a more open regulation on this. As long as they are safe and structurally sound then it makes sense to allow for this type of flexing.

Most teams will surely have a look at this and introduce something similar.

While the front wings are seen to flex - and nothing is done - then it's not consistent to moan so badly about this. Get it copied people - it's an efficient thing to do

[Sevach]

It's very clever and as always with these things - really obvious and simple too.

I think the regulations are going to struggle to always keep up and I would personally prefer a more open regulation on this. As long as they are safe and structurally sound then it makes sense to allow for this type of flexing.

Most teams will surely have a look at this and introduce something similar.

While the front wings are seen to flex - and nothing is done - then it's not consistent to moan so badly about this. Get it copied people - it's an efficient thing to do

Sorry, no, it does piss me off why some things are immediately addressed by the FIA while others they simply let it slide.
The justification they did on the FW that no one will be able to make one(that doesn't flex) until next year is frankly ridiculous.

With seem the hammer come down on Ferrari and Red Bull before, but now because everybody is on the feel good story of Mclaren's revival "that's the game".

[chrisc90]

I don’t agree with it either. There’s regulation to prevent this and it’s been manipulated.

The excuse of the budget cap is an absolute joke aswell be be fair.

How far of the opening of the DRS flap is allowed? I mean teams could probably bleed some hydraulic pressure off the flap allowing it to be ‘looser’ in the closed position which will allow it to move when there’s no hydraulic pressure on it.

It’s surprising that it still passes the DRS opening test to be fair.

[CMSMJ1]

It's very clever and as always with these things - really obvious and simple too.

I think the regulations are going to struggle to always keep up and I would personally prefer a more open regulation on this. As long as they are safe and structurally sound then it makes sense to allow for this type of flexing.

Most teams will surely have a look at this and introduce something similar.

While the front wings are seen to flex - and nothing is done - then it's not consistent to moan so badly about this. Get it copied people - it's an efficient thing to do

Sorry, no, it does piss me off why some things are immediately addressed by the FIA while others they simply let it slide.
The justification they did on the FW that no one will be able to make one(that doesn't flex) until next year is frankly ridiculous.

With seem the hammer come down on Ferrari and Red Bull before, but now because everybody is on the feel good story of Mclaren's revival "that's the game".

I don’t agree with it either. There’s regulation to prevent this and it’s been manipulated.

The excuse of the budget cap is an absolute joke aswell be be fair.

How far of the opening of the DRS flap is allowed? I mean teams could probably bleed some hydraulic pressure off the flap allowing it to be ‘looser’ in the closed position which will allow it to move when there’s no hydraulic pressure on it.

It’s surprising that it still passes the DRS opening test to be fair.

It's not quite "fair" - agreed. The cat is out of the bag with it and perhaps a TD to squash this current iteration would be the most "fair" for the rest of them. Budget and so on should not have much sway. The precedent of the front wing being too hard really does shoot the FIA/Stewards in the foot.

On a broader scope though - it is clever, it makes more sense to have flex in the bodywork to allow for underpowered ICE in the next regs to ensure low drag and this solution is much more elegant that manually handled "double DRS"

[214270]

The issue for me is that the FIA have expressed a desire for rigidity re:rear wings, it’s not like we’re litigating something fresh & new; stickers & monitoring of the rear facing cams - all in an effort to limit movement. Given that’s the environment they’re all operating in, it’s quite the thing for McL to spend time & resource developing this area. What needs to happen exactly for all parties to understand, no designed flexing tolerated?

[Sevach]

It's not quite "fair" - agreed. The cat is out of the bag with it and perhaps a TD to squash this current iteration would be the most "fair" for the rest of them. Budget and so on should not have much sway. The precedent of the front wing being too hard really does shoot the FIA/Stewards in the foot.

On a broader scope though - it is clever, it makes more sense to have flex in the bodywork to allow for underpowered ICE in the next regs to ensure low drag and this solution is much more elegant that manually handled "double DRS"

Playing with loopholes always came with the risk that this investment you made would be rendered pointless in a few weeks... their approach towards the current flexibility row it's almost like they are encouraging cheating.

I wonder if this isn't about political power, in 2022 Toto got what he wanted, even if the results weren't as he expected... now that he was on the side of let it go, they let the FWs go.
Let's see which teams take which stance regarding the new RW issue.