Red Bull RB20

[zioture]

[Alexf1]

Hi, a while back there was a discussion in the Red Bull team thread about the RB20s relative pace drop since Miami, backed up by this image:

There was also someone mentioning a section in TV program GP Confidential about FIA banning the RB20 extra rear damper reservoirs as of Miami:


Could this explain the RB20s sudden drop of pace (and top speed) advantage?

[.poz]

Could this explain the RB20s sudden drop of pace (and top speed) advantage?

Absolutely, a lot more realistic than the differential brake.

those ground effect cars have a huge problem: the center of pressure of the floor moves backward as the air speed increase and the car suffer form under steer

actually there are two way to mitigate this problem:
controlling the ride height (and the rake) with a clever suspension (RB and probably Ferrari in 2024, after Miami RB-Ferrari relative performance remain unchanged with Mclaren ad Mercedes catching up)
with a flexible front wing (Mclaren and then MB): actually i haven't understand if the flexible front wing compensate the under steering generating more load thanks to the wing tips closer to the ground or they actually control the air flux going under the floor

[Alexf1]

Could this explain the RB20s sudden drop of pace (and top speed) advantage?

Absolutely, a lot more realistic than the differential brake.

those ground effect cars have a huge problem: the center of pressure of the floor moves backward as the air speed increase and the car suffer form under steer

actually there are two way to mitigate this problem:
controlling the ride height (and the rake) with a clever suspension (RB and probably Ferrari in 2024, after Miami RB-Ferrari relative performance remain unchanged with Mclaren ad Mercedes catching up)
with a flexible front wing (Mclaren and then MB): actually i haven't understand if the flexible front wing compensate the under steering generating more load thanks to the wing tips closer to the ground or they actually control the air flux going under the floor

Seems like Red Bull had this type of system for quite some time now: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ison-2022/

No wonder Ross Brawn and Pat Symonds came to take a close look from the very first 2022 pre-season test: https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/105344/f ... elona.html

Indeed there were reports over the winter that Ferrari adopted such a system for 2024: https://scuderiafans.com/f1-sf-24-ferra ... rabian-gp/
Having to do without it after Miami could explain Ferraris drop in performance too.

[stewie325]

Could this explain the RB20s sudden drop of pace (and top speed) advantage?

Absolutely, a lot more realistic than the differential brake.

those ground effect cars have a huge problem: the center of pressure of the floor moves backward as the air speed increase and the car suffer form under steer

actually there are two way to mitigate this problem:
controlling the ride height (and the rake) with a clever suspension (RB and probably Ferrari in 2024, after Miami RB-Ferrari relative performance remain unchanged with Mclaren ad Mercedes catching up)
with a flexible front wing (Mclaren and then MB): actually i haven't understand if the flexible front wing compensate the under steering generating more load thanks to the wing tips closer to the ground or they actually control the air flux going under the floor

Seems like Red Bull had this type of system for quite some time now: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ison-2022/

No wonder Ross Brawn and Pat Symonds came to take a close look from the very first 2022 pre-season test: https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/105344/f ... elona.html

Indeed there were reports over the winter that Ferrari adopted such a system for 2024: https://scuderiafans.com/f1-sf-24-ferra ... rabian-gp/
Having to do without it after Miami could explain Ferraris drop in performance too.

I think Red Bull brought a new suspension at Bahrain (the 2nd test) which greatly improved their performance and removed porpoising, so the FIA inspecting it carefully at Barcelona wouldn't have shown them the true picture.

If the story is true, I wonder why it took two years for the system to get banned.

[Henk_v]

Due to my profession, I hold a few patents. One of them explains a certain apparatus and how it works.

In truth it does not work that way at all. The real invention is buried in what the text implies. The true invention is a presumed secondary effect.

Of course the text is written up by experienced professionals, truthful and protects the invention well, but anybody reading the patent will either see a cunning apparatus with doubtful real life application or if tempted to replicate it will be chasing the wrong mode of working.

The point is, how stuff really works and interacts may not be allways obvious looking at te parts, 3D CAD or drawings. Secondary effect may be exploited.

[bananapeel23]

With Red Bull refusing to do a special livery for Singapore and Austin out of weight concerns. Does this mean that the RB20 is overweight, or are they just so incredibly concerned about car performance that the microscopic change in center of gravity that a few hundred grams of paint would bring over ballast is too much for them?

[lio007]

Could this explain the RB20s sudden drop of pace (and top speed) advantage?

Absolutely, a lot more realistic than the differential brake.

those ground effect cars have a huge problem: the center of pressure of the floor moves backward as the air speed increase and the car suffer form under steer

actually there are two way to mitigate this problem:
controlling the ride height (and the rake) with a clever suspension (RB and probably Ferrari in 2024, after Miami RB-Ferrari relative performance remain unchanged with Mclaren ad Mercedes catching up)
with a flexible front wing (Mclaren and then MB): actually i haven't understand if the flexible front wing compensate the under steering generating more load thanks to the wing tips closer to the ground or they actually control the air flux going under the floor

Seems like Red Bull had this type of system for quite some time now: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... ison-2022/

No wonder Ross Brawn and Pat Symonds came to take a close look from the very first 2022 pre-season test: https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/105344/f ... elona.html

Indeed there were reports over the winter that Ferrari adopted such a system for 2024: https://scuderiafans.com/f1-sf-24-ferra ... rabian-gp/
Having to do without it after Miami could explain Ferraris drop in performance too.

Is there any possibility that Rob Marshall said "Hey FIA, take a closer look at this and that on the RB20"?
Is this how the business works? Even if it's your ex-Team where you have been part of for more than a decade?

[Paa]

With Red Bull refusing to do a special livery for Singapore and Austin out of weight concerns. Does this mean that the RB20 is overweight, or are they just so incredibly concerned about car performance that the microscopic change in center of gravity that a few hundred grams of paint would bring over ballast is too much for them?

They talk so much about aerodynamic balance being off, that I can only imagine they would like to have as much freedom as possible with playing with ballast. Even if the two are not directly connected, one might help to balance the other?

[AR3-GP]

With Red Bull refusing to do a special livery for Singapore and Austin out of weight concerns. Does this mean that the RB20 is overweight, or are they just so incredibly concerned about car performance that the microscopic change in center of gravity that a few hundred grams of paint would bring over ballast is too much for them?

They talk so much about aerodynamic balance being off, that I can only imagine they would like to have as much freedom as possible with playing with ballast. Even if the two are not directly connected, one might help to balance the other?

In low speed corners, the mass distribution will have a larger effect, so it is possible.

[Alexf1]

With Red Bull refusing to do a special livery for Singapore and Austin out of weight concerns. Does this mean that the RB20 is overweight, or are they just so incredibly concerned about car performance that the microscopic change in center of gravity that a few hundred grams of paint would bring over ballast is too much for them?

They talk so much about aerodynamic balance being off, that I can only imagine they would like to have as much freedom as possible with playing with ballast. Even if the two are not directly connected, one might help to balance the other?

In low speed corners, the mass distribution will have a larger effect, so it is possible.

I think after Sergio's crash the rush in which extra (spare) parts have to be produced and immediately shipped to Singapore makes it impossible to have these also painted in the special livery in time

[AR3-GP]

Hungary engine cover returns for Singapore:


-fabrega twitter.

[Emag]

Is the front wing different?

[lio007]

At least this: but nothing new to see I think

[Luscion]