Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[nipo]

- Turn up to WMSC with Flav, this implies you deny everything, suffer massive penalty.

How would that work?

I don't understand why, if Renault/Flav/Pat were clear and it was only a setup to get rid of Flav, would Renault not consider standing up and putting up a good fight.

After all, for one of your (Max's) personal agenda, you are accusing me (Renault) of this crime!!!

[SZ]

I don't understand why, if Renault/Flav/Pat were clear and it was only a setup to get rid of Flav, would Renault not consider standing up and putting up a good fight.

(Are you serious?)

When someone calls checkmate, you don't make things any better by trying to cut their throat with your king. The game is over. Stand up, shake hands, and walk away.

The only thing worse than pandering to the FIA when they're threatening your team's very existence is publicly calling them - and their fearsome leader - a bunch of lying, cheating, underhanded bitches. This only incites a new cycle of retribution, and furthermore as it can't be proven who of Flav or PS or Nelson enforced the master plan (if anyone did), if you get rid of Flav alone, Flav has a fair legal recourse to sue for wrongful termination. NP is out, Symonds had to go too. If there were another ten people at that meeting they'd be out the door as well.

The war's far from finished though and if Flav sees fit I doubt this is the last F1 has seen of him. He's evaded jail time, he's been kicked out of Benetton/Renault once before and come back alive and well. He should not be underestimated and if anything this latest turn of events at FIA HQ indicates that someone there certainly isn't.

The whole point of the series of events we've seen is to have Renault get rid of Flav by using the PR machine to apply the necessary pressure to do it, not by creating yet another series of events framed by direct accusations that end up exploding on the team... remember that at worst three people had anything to do with this, and 400+ work for that team - I'd bet they're not as well off as Flav, Pat or the Piquets, for what it's worth.

xpensive... we agree!

[TheMinister]

F1 is starting to work like Hong Kong soap drama (sorry that's where I'm from, ain't got better examples) - the more ridiculous and crappy it gets, the more people despise it; the more people despise it, the more attraction it generates!!!

So this might be "good" for F1 after all...

There seems to be a lot of people crying about how this is terrible for the sport, betrayal of trust etc etc etc.....

Personally I absolutely love a good scandal. F1 is the only sport that provides scandals of this magnitude so frequently- sure, football managers have a good bitch at each other, but cheating like this is unheard of. Great fun!

Interesting to see whether or not this affects viewing figures; some might dislike it, but F1 has got itself a ridiculous amount of news coverage over this affair.

[vyselegend]

Everyone seems to forget one important detail about the timing and the real reasons behind the Renault Anouncement:

Yesterday was the official inauguration of the Salon automobile de Francfort 2009, one of the biggest meeting for automotives industries in Europe.

Word on the street is that Carlos Gohsn, who was personaly opening the press conference for Renault, kept being asked about the F1 scandal by journalists, despite he made it clear he wouldn't treat about that at all.
This basically ruined Renault's PR about their core business, and the big boss left the stand totally pissed.

A few hours later we all read the news on autosport: Pat & Flav were effectively fired and Renault had rushed an announcement saying they wouldn't speak about that crap again.

So I think we are all influenced by our passion for F1 and the importance it has for us. Quite probably the decision at Renault had little to do with the evidences presented or the bad press inside the F1 world. But it had all to do with the marketing heads firing the alarm signal because the crap was overflowing outside of the F1 microcosm and parasiting their real world. Renault didn't sack Briatore & Symonds IMO; it's rather a furious Carlos Gohsn who sacked F1...

For these people, F1 (and any other motorsport involvment) is just advertising money. They can decide to withdraw F1 and invest $250 millions in a new big TV add for the new Megane or Laguna instead, without much regrets...

[modbaraban]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there the collective responsibility mentioned in the rules somewhere? The charges are not against Flavio Briatore but against Renault F1 Team. So the team is in big trouble either way.

[jon-mullen]

Yesterday was the official inauguration of the Salon automobile de Francfort 2009, one of the biggest meeting for automotives industries in Europe.

Word on the street is that Carlos Gohsn, who was personaly opening the press conference for Renault, kept being asked about the F1 scandal by journalists, despite he made it clear he wouldn't treat about that at all.
This basically ruined Renault's PR about their core business, and the big boss left the stand totally pissed.

Really? An F1 scandal more exciting than this?



Oh yeah, I guess you're right.

[Ciro Pabón]

Gossip warning: if you believe anything in the following post, you don't know me.

I wonder if there is a connection between the timing of this and the coming FIA election for president. It's next October the 23th, isn't it? I suppose all members around here are excited about Ari Vatanen candidacy, are you? Briatore was and dirty water is going to splash Ari, I guess. How convenient for the other candidate.

Are Briatore and Symonds under the threat of extradition to Singapore? The reason: "for ordering a violent and dangerous incident (to) take place". This could be interpreted as a very ingenious way to keep Flavio shut up or a genuine interest of Singapore authorities (yes, the very same authorities that reached a deal with FIA about the track) in avoiding "violent" incidents. After all, you do not want people crashing around in racing circuits. That's violent. You know, he could be caned (caning is a normal penalty there, I've heard) for being violent. Caning is not violent, on the other hand, as we all know.

Briatore is also in problems with the British Football federation: he owns part of Queens Park Rangers and the League forbids participation to "anyone subject to a ban from the involvement in the administration of a sport by a sport's governing body". Another leg that the lame man sprouts...

The candidate for Renault (if it survives) technical director is Frederic Vasseur, boss of the GP2 Art team (and a very good friend of FIA president candidate... Jean Todt). Coincidences are funny, aren't they?

BTW, if you haven't heard my advice, it's time to sell all your dollars... before it takes a dive for the worst. You have one year or so. If you have Renault F1 shares, it's time to think what to do with them.

I don't know about the Fluence, but I know that this year Renault will launch a full electric vehicle. GM is happy with the Volt. Nissan will launch its all electric vehicle next year (Nissan Leaf). BMW is launching its Vision Efficient Dynamics (what a great name! It only has 8 syllables and its really easy to remember... if you speak german). Where all this comes from? A breaktrough in battery capacity? New ways to avoid overcharging the electric network? Probably. I bet that the 7.500 U$ dollars subsidy put in place by the governments of the US and France has nothing to do with it.

[Ciro Pabón]

Gossip warning: if you believe anything in the following post, you don't know me.

I wonder if there is a connection between the timing of this and the coming FIA election for president. It's next October the 23th, isn't it? I suppose all members around here are excited about Ari Vatanen candidacy, are you? Briatore was and dirty water is going to splash Ari, I guess. How convenient for the other candidate.

Are Briatore and Symonds under the threat of extradition to Singapore? The reason: "for ordering a violent and dangerous incident (to) take place". This could be interpreted as a very ingenious way to keep Flavio shut up or a genuine interest of Singapore authorities (yes, the very same authorities that reached a deal with FIA about the track) in avoiding "violent" incidents. After all, you do not want people crashing around in racing circuits. That's violent. You know, he could be caned (caning is a normal penalty there, I've heard) for being violent. Caning is not violent, on the other hand, as we all know.

Briatore is also in problems with the British Football federation: he owns part of Queens Park Rangers and the League forbids participation to "anyone subject to a ban from the involvement in the administration of a sport by a sport's governing body". Another leg that the lame man sprouts...

The candidate for Renault (if it survives) technical director is Frederic Vasseur, boss of the GP2 Art team (and a very good friend of FIA president candidate... Jean Todt). Coincidences are funny, aren't they?

BTW, if you haven't heard my advice, it's time to sell all your dollars... before it takes a dive for the worst. You have one year or so. If you have Renault F1 shares, it's time to think what to do with them.

I don't know about the Fluence, but I know that this year Renault will launch a full electric vehicle. GM is happy with the Volt. Nissan will launch its all electric vehicle next year (Nissan Leaf). BMW is launching its Vision Efficient Dynamics (what a great name! It only has 8 syllables and its really easy to remember... if you speak german). Where all this comes from? A breaktrough in battery capacity? New ways to avoid overcharging the electric network? Probably. I bet that the 7.500 U$ dollars subsidy put in place by the governments of the US and France has nothing to do with it.

[Richard]

The radio transcripts don't implicate them in any wrong doing at all

If they were cheating then they would have made sure that no mention of it was made on the radio.

If they were NOT cheating then there would be no mention of it on the radio.

[King Six]

For these people, F1 (and any other motorsport involvment) is just advertising money. They can decide to withdraw F1 and invest $250 millions in a new big TV add for the new Megane or Laguna instead, without much regrets...

I don't think it's quite that simple for the big bosses of the manufacturer teams. There's more to it than that, or at least there was, you had the whole technological innovation aspect of it too. Obviously that's about nil these days, maybe KERS made some people come up with a few neat applications for the real world. But it's still there in some form. Although alot of it can be advertising it's also quite an R&D investment too.

I doubt they see F1 as just a small advertising scheme on par with a TV advert

Plus there's always a chance of even earning a profit from F1 should you be successful enough.

Or with the amount of money involved with simply participating in F1 is it almost impossible to gain a healthy profit from it all?

[Mr Alcatraz]

So mr golden and the most complete driver starts race from 15th in a aggressive strategy..and he does not know anything and say anything for chosing this strategy even though he is a complete driver on a STREET CIRCUIT

then his team crashes putting him in leader of the race...and mr golden boy goes home thinking it is a MIRACLE....are we bloody idiots that he does not know what has happened...or MR cheater's fan wants to ignore this fact...

this is so stupid...he should be punished man come on guys....think...

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/09/l ... so-in-the-
clear-on-singapore-crash-plot/

Leaked transcripts put Alonso in the clear on Singapore crash plot

It got lost in the wake of Renault’s announcement today, but according to further leaked material from the prosecution’s dossier into the events surrounding Nelson Piquet’s accident in Singapore last year, the FIA believes that Fernando Alonso knew nothing of the alleged conspiracy.


Alonso: FIA prosecutors satisfied he knew nothing of plot (Photo: Darren Heath
Alonso won the race thanks to a safety car triggered by Nelson Piquet’s accident, which he alleges was a conspiracy involving senior Renault management.

In summing up a lengthy document detailing the interview and investigations carried out by stewards at the recent Belgian Grand Prix, assisted by the FIA’s Herbie Blash, Lars Osterlind says,

“As regards Mr Alonso and the other engineers, the Stewards have found no evidence to suggest that they knew anything about the plans to cause a deliberate crash on lap 14.

Deal with it dude!!!
At least untill the facts in the case are presented in the FIA Meeting

[vyselegend]

Yesterday was the official inauguration of the Salon automobile de Francfort 2009, one of the biggest meeting for automotives industries in Europe.

Word on the street is that Carlos Gohsn, who was personaly opening the press conference for Renault, kept being asked about the F1 scandal by journalists, despite he made it clear he wouldn't treat about that at all.
This basically ruined Renault's PR about their core business, and the big boss left the stand totally pissed.

Really? An F1 scandal more exciting than this?

Oh yeah, I guess you're right.

Well, yes, without irony, that's the point. Excitement for Gohsn & co comes from the selling numbers of the Scenic or the Clio, not from watching a GP or reading F1's last farces in gossip magazines.

But I guess we can agree the design of Renault cars is insanely boooooring and conformist, if not simply ugly...
I suppose the people buying'em don't give a sh*t at car estetics, as long as it is ranked as "safe, comfortable and efficient".

I doubt they see F1 as just a small advertising scheme on par with a TV advert

Plus there's always a chance of even earning a profit from F1 should you be successful enough.

Or with the amount of money involved with simply participating in F1 is it almost impossible to gain a healthy profit from it all?

Quite the opposite actually! From what I could find on the net, Renault's advertising budget voted in january for the 2009 exercice is up to €600 milions! It concerns TV, radio, paper press and placarding.

According to what I've read here (sorry it's in french), it may be part (or not) of a more than $1 bilion deal with american company Omnicom Group Inc.(OMC). The contracts is for advertising through 25 countries over a period of 3 years if I understand it well. (I must admit I'm not understanding this stuff generally, so I might have missed something).

Still, the numbers are eloquent. Renault F1 team costs roughly €350 milions a year, and the major part of that amount is paid by sponsors like ING. Seen from that point, F1's budget really is ridiculous (actually it seems quite cheap for a worldwide constructor), considering the visibility it offers.

[timbo]

Thing is - there CAN'T be any evidence, except for a personal affidavit (or an e-mail ).
And that is the key of the story. If nobody recorded Piquet's thoughts at the moment before the crash, there can't be any evidences that he did it deliberately, nor there can't be disapproval of the claim that he did so.
That is indeed a checkmate. Probably we can argue that Flavio didn't play his part all that great, but sh*t sticks even if you are clean.

[Shaddock]

Renault have to consider their brand image and how that is perceived by the public and the sponsors of the team. No sponsor is going to pay $20mil a year to be associated with a team of cheats & crooks. The big sponsorship deals are based on the prestige of F1 and the brand image of the team, linked to the car’s success on the track. If this is tarnished in anyway it becomes harder to attract the investment needed to keep the team afloat.

[SZ]

No sponsor is going to pay $20mil a year to be associated with a team of cheats & crooks.

Are you sure? The very same strategy's worked for Ferrari and (more recently) McLaren just fine...