2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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BMMR61 wrote:
05 Oct 2024, 20:20
mwillems wrote:
05 Oct 2024, 10:46
We were 3rd,4th,5th,4th in the previous 4 constructors. The development of the previous 18 months is a rapidly improving trajectory having been consistently fighting in the midfield and not really progressing after the dismal Honda years, until last years Austria update.
Some people need to be reminded of this when they criticise the team. The progression shows what is possible in engineering terms as well as how difficult it is to do so. 6th, 4th, 3rd , 4th, 5th, 4th from the first Renault year (2018) to last year revealed the weaknesses, the fall to 4th and 5th in 2021 and 2022 put the recovery of the previous years in question. Throughout the earlier recovery was an inconsistency showing they had not yet fully understood their platform. The wind tunnel and the removal of one of the senior engineering staff has proved part of the most recent return to glory days. I haven't seen it discussed but Lando's Austrian clash with Max is the team's only DNF this year and the unfortunate clash with Sainz at Miami the only other time McLaren didn't score points.
Nobody has questioned the quality of the car or the drivers ability to bring the car home, only some of the strategy and driving. Just because we had a sh*t car 8 years ago has nothing to do with what the team are doing this year. fighting at the front of midfield for a few years doesn't mean you forget when is the right time to pit a driver or how to manage your first corner and first lap.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

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_cerber1
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Joined: 18 Jan 2019, 21:50
Location: From Russia with love

Re: McLaren MCL38

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Image

Image

Mod edit: This post and a few answers below, were moved here from the car thread.

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BMMR61
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Joined: 25 May 2021, 13:02
Location: Australia.

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
05 Oct 2024, 21:05
BMMR61 wrote:
05 Oct 2024, 20:20
mwillems wrote:
05 Oct 2024, 10:46
We were 3rd,4th,5th,4th in the previous 4 constructors. The development of the previous 18 months is a rapidly improving trajectory having been consistently fighting in the midfield and not really progressing after the dismal Honda years, until last years Austria update.
Some people need to be reminded of this when they criticise the team. The progression shows what is possible in engineering terms as well as how difficult it is to do so. 6th, 4th, 3rd , 4th, 5th, 4th from the first Renault year (2018) to last year revealed the weaknesses, the fall to 4th and 5th in 2021 and 2022 put the recovery of the previous years in question. Throughout the earlier recovery was an inconsistency showing they had not yet fully understood their platform. The wind tunnel and the removal of one of the senior engineering staff has proved part of the most recent return to glory days. I haven't seen it discussed but Lando's Austrian clash with Max is the team's only DNF this year and the unfortunate clash with Sainz at Miami the only other time McLaren didn't score points.
Nobody has questioned the quality of the car or the drivers ability to bring the car home, only some of the strategy and driving. Just because we had a sh*t car 8 years ago has nothing to do with what the team are doing this year. fighting at the front of midfield for a few years doesn't mean you forget when is the right time to pit a driver or how to manage your first corner and first lap.
I agree that the big weakness is strategy. I was furious when they undercut Oscar at Hungary discerning the potential crisis it could (and did) produce. To add insult to injury Randy Singh was selected to go to the podium presentations when it was his department that screwed up (and continue to screw up).

PapayaFan481
PapayaFan481
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Joined: 16 Feb 2024, 13:08

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
05 Oct 2024, 10:46
We were 3rd,4th,5th,4th in the previous 4 constructors. The development of the previous 18 months is a rapidly improving trajectory having been consistently fighting in the midfield and not really progressing after the dismal Honda years, until last years Austria update.
This is true, but the groundwork has been a little longer term - the wind tunnel and recruitment of key staff etc.
If I come across as blunt, I apologise, it's my ASD. Sometimes, like an F1 car aqua-planing, it gets out of my control.

geogate
geogate
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Joined: 29 Nov 2014, 02:25

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Interesting read on peoples views.
The reality is that Mclarens performance over the decades has always had a strong correlation to the resources they had to work with at the time. There have been periods when they have "somewhat" overperformed, sometimes when they have "somewhat" underperformed, but for me they have generally been around where they should have been.
You can always look to periods where the senior management fell far short - Eric Boullier springs to mind.
But Mclaren and Ferrari both have had these cycles, and what has always brought them back to the front, eventually, has been the willingness to make radical changes - something I think we haven't seen from the likes of Williams (until now? maybe?). Ron was willing to do that, and now we have seen Zak Brown being willing to do that.
Ron had his time - it was right he went when he did, his era was over, the way he did business was consigned to history.
One thing Ron always told his staff - When you work for MClaren, it is in your DNA, and yours will become part of Mclaren ... whether you move on or not, the Mclaren DNA will always be in you.

Mclaren will always have Ron's DNA

Macklaren
Macklaren
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014, 16:26

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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mwillems wrote:
05 Oct 2024, 21:05

fighting at the front of midfield for a few years doesn't mean you forget when is the right time to pit a driver or how to manage your first corner and first lap.
It does actually. Your strategy in the midfield is very different than the strategy at the front. Your strategy options in P2 are completely different than your strategy options when you're in P1 (ask Lewis from AD2021)

the team needs time and experience to adapt their strategy to constantly running at the front

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Vanja #66
1572
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: McLaren MCL38

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Honestly, neither of those two floor illustrations is anywhere near accurate, especially the McL38 "flow" illustration in the bottom
AeroGimli.x

And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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mwillems
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Joined: 04 Sep 2016, 22:11

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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Macklaren wrote:
06 Oct 2024, 10:13
mwillems wrote:
05 Oct 2024, 21:05

fighting at the front of midfield for a few years doesn't mean you forget when is the right time to pit a driver or how to manage your first corner and first lap.
It does actually. Your strategy in the midfield is very different than the strategy at the front. Your strategy options in P2 are completely different than your strategy options when you're in P1 (ask Lewis from AD2021)

the team needs time and experience to adapt their strategy to constantly running at the front
I think you're exaggerating it somewhat. It's fairly clear there were some hair brained decisions or overthinking that are less to do with experience and more to do with competence in the moment.
I'm not taking advice from a cartoon dog

-Bandit

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: McLaren MCL38

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Vanja #66 wrote:
06 Oct 2024, 11:17
Honestly, neither of those two floor illustrations is anywhere near accurate, especially the McL38 "flow" illustration in the bottom
Who is the author?
A lion must kill its prey.

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BMMR61
0
Joined: 25 May 2021, 13:02
Location: Australia.

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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geogate wrote:
06 Oct 2024, 09:01
Interesting read on peoples views.
The reality is that Mclarens performance over the decades has always had a strong correlation to the resources they had to work with at the time. There have been periods when they have "somewhat" overperformed, sometimes when they have "somewhat" underperformed, but for me they have generally been around where they should have been.
You can always look to periods where the senior management fell far short - Eric Boullier springs to mind.
But Mclaren and Ferrari both have had these cycles, and what has always brought them back to the front, eventually, has been the willingness to make radical changes - something I think we haven't seen from the likes of Williams (until now? maybe?). Ron was willing to do that, and now we have seen Zak Brown being willing to do that.
Ron had his time - it was right he went when he did, his era was over, the way he did business was consigned to history.
One thing Ron always told his staff - When you work for MClaren, it is in your DNA, and yours will become part of Mclaren ... whether you move on or not, the Mclaren DNA will always be in you.

Mclaren will always have Ron's DNA
I hadn't heard that quote of Ron before, nice.

McLaren endured an almost legendary low period of more than a decade with just the Monza 2021 win to break the drought and another 3 years before a return to competitiveness. It could be argued that the 2007 conflict with Max Mosley lay the seeds of destruction for the then great team - the 100 million fine, exclusion from the championship and subsequent loss of credibility with it's engine supplier. The fall was sudden but the reasons clear in retrospect, as they usually are, though hard to discern at the time. Hamilton suddenly defected, shocking the F1 world and was proven to be a harbinger of what was to come. Honda arrived, unprepared and in some disarray, Ron delegated his F1 leadership to a less than strong TP.

Zak grew into the top job and employed leadership principles that empowered others. This will almost always require a weeding out process, as we saw from the restructuring of early 2023. Now the pieces of the puzzle started to fit neatly together and the appointment of Sanchez proved redundant, the blueprint for the 2024 success was now laid. The McLaren DNA still survives, Zak is a McLaren man through and through. They now just have to learn how to fly again - success breeds success.

venkyhere
venkyhere
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Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: McLaren MCL38

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This shows two fast air streams criss crossing each other or smashing into each other. That can't be allowed to happen. It's plain wrong.

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Vanja #66
1572
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: McLaren MCL38

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AR3-GP wrote:
07 Oct 2024, 00:23
Who is the author?
Looks like Ohad Bark, there were similar illustrations with nonsense flow explanations, but this one is a clear winner... For now
AeroGimli.x

And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

FittingMechanics
FittingMechanics
16
Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 12:10

Re: 2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

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geogate wrote:
06 Oct 2024, 09:01
Interesting read on peoples views.
The reality is that Mclarens performance over the decades has always had a strong correlation to the resources they had to work with at the time. There have been periods when they have "somewhat" overperformed, sometimes when they have "somewhat" underperformed, but for me they have generally been around where they should have been.
Completely agreed. The team is good but it heavily depends on the resources. No wonder they inevitably lost out when they stopped being a Mercedes works team. And the team seems to be catching up now that the cost cap is introduced. Ferrari is a much bigger underachiever, even though on average they were much better than McLaren, their resources and budget were always top notch so they should have done more.

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scuderiabrandon
102
Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: McLaren MCL38

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Vanja #66 wrote:
06 Oct 2024, 11:17
Honestly, neither of those two floor illustrations is anywhere near accurate, especially the McL38 "flow" illustration in the bottom
Love the part where the mouse hole is an exit oppose to intended use of being an entry hole :lol:

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Vanja #66
1572
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: McLaren MCL38

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scuderiabrandon wrote:
07 Oct 2024, 09:47
Love the part where the mouse hole is an exit oppose to intended use of being an entry hole :lol:
Because it is perfectly sensible for a fluid to avoid getting sucked in the low pressure zone of diffuser, choosing to go to high pressure zone outside instead :mrgreen:
AeroGimli.x

And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie