Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
And to get away with that you would need huge amount of front-end lateral stiffness. How would you do it with a pliable ride when you would get uneven plank wear depending on the track direction? Clockwise you'll be wearing the left side and vice versa.
Tell tale signs of this would be huge understeer and particularly poor over kerbs.
Who has been complaining most about that?
I think you mean roll stiffness, not lateral. Including this design would allow a very pliable front in Q, excellent over kerbs and also through high speed corners. It would also result in very few sparks in Q, because the skid block at the front of the plank isn't hitting the track.
Max domination is coming back then? Good bye Papaya? I think if any team used this trick it might have been the papaya car. They were the only ones who had perfect car under any circumstances and always nailed the setup.
Last edited by pantherxxx on 17 Oct 2024, 15:06, edited 1 time in total.
This would also explain the stupendous tyre wear characteristics a certain team has been showing, coupled with amazing qualifying performances. With such a thing, you could have the best of both worlds, a good setup for both qualifying and the race...
And to get away with that you would need huge amount of front-end lateral stiffness. How would you do it with a pliable ride when you would get uneven plank wear depending on the track direction? Clockwise you'll be wearing the left side and vice versa.
Tell tale signs of this would be huge understeer and particularly poor over kerbs.
Who has been complaining most about that?
I think you mean roll stiffness, not lateral. Including this design would allow a very pliable front in Q, excellent over kerbs and also through high speed corners. It would also result in very few sparks in Q, because the skid block at the front of the plank isn't hitting the track.
Quite right...
*Horizontal stiffness across the front axle. I do agree that this idea would not see you sparking crazy in Q.
It needs to be stiff imo.
Any visible/excess pliability would mean set up goes off a cliff if you're dropping the ride height from Q to Race.
They're not adjusting the suspension AFAIK. Just the Bib. Also seen a few planks from various teams with wear at the front of the plank in the last 2 seasons.
Is it clear whether this device would be adjusted by an engineer, or if it's a type of lever the driver could operate ahead of or during the race (like they used to around 2007 with brake bias levers?)
If one of the top teams have used this, the suspicion will fall on McLaren. We've never seen any other team to be so strong in both qualifying and in the race. In Singapore, Norris was 1 sec/lap faster than Verstappen. If Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes had such a tricky solution, why were they so far behind? Moreover, all season long we have seen McLaren pushing the grey zone solutions the hardest, such as the mini DRS. Of course this is all speculation at this point.
Last edited by pantherxxx on 17 Oct 2024, 16:04, edited 1 time in total.
"If someone has been lifting the bib for qualifying and then dropping it for the race, losing that advantage with immediate effect should expose a step-change in performance."
Shouldn't be the opposite? run lower in quali and then higher in the race?
It could be as simple as having a bolt (or other adjuster) that adjusts the bib height that is accessed via the cockpit. That would probably be legal as it would require a tool to adjust it (which I think is what is required by the regulations). The issue then is that it might be possible for a mechanic to adjust that setting without it being obvious (which I think is the reason behind the "requires a tool" regulation). There is then the question of if a team has that setup have they actually been using it to make adjustments in parc-ferme.
The unfortunate thing in this case is that it's essentially impossible to prove retrospectively if someone was breaking the regulations, because firstly they'll never admit it and secondly there's no footage or telemetry of anything that can be viewed as evidence
So they don't know for sure if anyone has used the trick.
I do look forward to more news about it.
My understanding of the situation is that they found 1 team having this device in the car.
But retroactively it is impossible to prove that it has been used during parc-fermé. The suspected team can argue that they only had this device so they can make quick adjustments during practice for experimenting.
A bit like the traction control of Benetton from the '90s. They had the code in ECU, but they argued they never used it in race or something like that, I don't remember the details.
This could theoretically explain why Lando Norris was able to be 1 second per lap faster than Verstappen at the beginning of the Singapore GP. McLaren’s car would be perfectly set up to handle the heavy load, while other teams, forced to compromise, might struggle with balance, grip, and tire management early on.
At the start of the race, with a full fuel load, most teams would be using a compromised setup that balances qualifying performance with race performance. However, if McLaren (using this trick) could start the race with an optimal setup tailored specifically for a heavy fuel load (via ride height adjustments), they could achieve better stability, downforce, and grip from the very first lap.
As the race progresses and fuel burns off, the car becomes lighter. A lower ride height would once again be optimal for aerodynamics. Since McLaren’s ride height was raised for the heavier fuel load, they might lose the aerodynamic edge once the car becomes lighter in the second stint.
(Again, this is just speculation, I'm not accusing anyone).
It's probably a nothingburger then. The Mclaren version would have made sense. If a team could adjust ride height for real, they would have a huge advantage, and Red Bull doesn't have that.
I think if any team used this trick it might have been the papaya car. They were the only ones who had perfect car under any circumstances and always nailed the setup.
