2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[mwillems]

Dude, you could say the same with their double DRS rear wing, it’s all about pushing boundaries in this sport

If ride height was changed inside parc fermé using this device then it isn't similar to the McLaren rear wing. It would be completely illegal, not just a grey area.

Spot on… This isn’t about “the spirit of the rules”… “If” (and that’s a big “If”) this was actually used to change the ride height, there is not interpretation of the rules, there is no boundaries been pushed, this is plain and simply illegal.

The size of the if gets smaller as the weight of the car gets bigger, for a device not used in a race or parc ferme. Does it take so long to manually alter settings that you need such a device.

I cannot see any reason why it would be worth the weight penalty for something the engineers can do easily enough.

[SmallSoldier]

If ride height was changed inside parc fermé using this device then it isn't similar to the McLaren rear wing. It would be completely illegal, not just a grey area.

Spot on… This isn’t about “the spirit of the rules”… “If” (and that’s a big “If”) this was actually used to change the ride height, there is not interpretation of the rules, there is no boundaries been pushed, this is plain and simply illegal.

I agree, however mclarens rear wing wasn’t a grey area, it was obvious to the fia after Azerbaijan that it wasn’t conforming to the regulations hence its immediate change.

The regulations clearly state that you cannot have the main plane of the rear wing flex to an extent that it allows a a certain gap, the wing didn’t conform

This is the Red Bull thread, so I don’t want to elaborate too much in regards to the McLaren rear wing, but you are mistaken… McLaren’s rear wing wasn’t deem “illegal’, it wasn’t “banned” in Azerbaijan, there was no test put in place to measure the deflection of the end corners of the flap… Very different situation… and not dissimilar to other “flex wing sagas” from the past… There is a big difference between those situations and simply having a device in the car, accessible from the cockpit that can change the ride height when the car is in Parc Femme, which if it was used would mean a DSQ.

Since there is no way to prove that Red Bull did indeed use the device while in Parc Femme, there are no grounds for a DSQ (only way would be for a Whisleblower to state that they did)… But given that device does indeed exist and can be used to alter the height, measures are been put in place to ensure it doesn’t happen.

[pantherxxx]

It does work during the legal window of car setup, but not during parc fermé, since that would violate the rules.

It's really weird to put a device on your car that's designed to change the ride height between qualifying and the race and never use it, isn't it?

That's your and the media's interpretation which might be off.

The FIA was already monitoring this stuff in Singapore GP. Did you see any drop in performance? It's was Max's strongest finish in a long time, despite Red Bull was always weak in Singapore even last year.

[Joel709]

Spot on… This isn’t about “the spirit of the rules”… “If” (and that’s a big “If”) this was actually used to change the ride height, there is not interpretation of the rules, there is no boundaries been pushed, this is plain and simply illegal.

I agree, however mclarens rear wing wasn’t a grey area, it was obvious to the fia after Azerbaijan that it wasn’t conforming to the regulations hence its immediate change.

The regulations clearly state that you cannot have the main plane of the rear wing flex to an extent that it allows a a certain gap, the wing didn’t conform

This is the Red Bull threat, so I don’t want to elaborate too much in regards to the McLaren rear wing, but you are mistaken… McLaren’s rear wing wasn’t deem “illegal’, it was banned in Azerbaijan, there was no test put in place to measure the deflection of the end corners of the flap… Very different situation… and not dissimilar to other “flex wing sagas” from the past… There is a big difference between those situations and simply having a device in the car, accessible from the cockpit that can change the ride height when the car is in Parc Femme, which if it was used would mean a DSQ.

Since there is no way to prove that Red Bull did indeed use the device while in Parc Femme, there are no grounds for a DSQ (only way would be for a Whisleblower to state that they did)… But given that device does indeed exist and can be used to alter the height, measures are been put in place to ensure it doesn’t happen.

Yes I agree, as I have read, every team has access to this device as it’s built by a singular company, it’s how teams are using it that’s worrying most

[organic]

It's funny how everyone loves the sport, including the fact that engineers look for grey areas in the regulations and try to gain an advantage by doing so. But when some team is caught on this grey zone, immediately starts ‘they are cheaters, how dare they’, especially it is funny if you understand that all the teams are also ‘cheating’, it's just not so easy to find.

It isn't a grey area though

[lio007]

If ride height was changed inside parc fermé using this device then it isn't similar to the McLaren rear wing. It would be completely illegal, not just a grey area.

Spot on… This isn’t about “the spirit of the rules”… “If” (and that’s a big “If”) this was actually used to change the ride height, there is not interpretation of the rules, there is no boundaries been pushed, this is plain and simply illegal.

The size of the if gets smaller as the weight of the car gets bigger, for a device not used in a race or parc ferme. Does it take so long to manually alter settings that you need such a device.

I cannot see any reason why it would be worth the weight penalty for something the engineers can do easily enough.

How can you say there is a weight penalty?

[mwillems]

Spot on… This isn’t about “the spirit of the rules”… “If” (and that’s a big “If”) this was actually used to change the ride height, there is not interpretation of the rules, there is no boundaries been pushed, this is plain and simply illegal.

The size of the if gets smaller as the weight of the car gets bigger, for a device not used in a race or parc ferme. Does it take so long to manually alter settings that you need such a device.

I cannot see any reason why it would be worth the weight penalty for something the engineers can do easily enough.

How can you say there is a weight penalty?

Because having a device on the car for this purpose will add weight.

Edit: my mistake, it's apparently a common device.

[organic]

The size of the if gets smaller as the weight of the car gets bigger, for a device not used in a race or parc ferme. Does it take so long to manually alter settings that you need such a device.

I cannot see any reason why it would be worth the weight penalty for something the engineers can do easily enough.

How can you say there is a weight penalty?

Because having a device on the car for this purpose will add weight.

Red bull claims this device is manufactured for all teams in the paddock according to Erik van Haren

[mwillems]

How can you say there is a weight penalty?

Because having a device on the car for this purpose will add weight.

Red bull claims this device is manufactured for all teams in the paddock according to Erik van Haren

Yeah just noticed this and was about to.edit. let's see if the teams contradict.

[organic]

Because having a device on the car for this purpose will add weight.

Red bull claims this device is manufactured for all teams in the paddock according to Erik van Haren

Yeah just noticed this and was about to.edit.

If all teams have the device, and the key difference is that red bull have made the device accessible from the cockpit then the weight gain from doing that perhaps wouldn't be so bad.

[mwillems]

Red bull claims this device is manufactured for all teams in the paddock according to Erik van Haren

Yeah just noticed this and was about to.edit.

If all teams have the device, and the key difference is that red bull have made the device accessible from the cockpit then the weight gain from doing that perhaps wouldn't be so bad.

I doubt there would be any. Be interesting to see if the other teams confirm they do have such a device.

[FittingMechanics]

It's really weird to put a device on your car that's designed to change the ride height between qualifying and the race and never use it, isn't it?

That's your and the media's interpretation which might be off.

The FIA was already monitoring this stuff in Singapore GP. Did you see any drop in performance? It's was Max's strongest finish in a long time, despite Red Bull was always weak in Singapore even last year.

And yet yesterday you talked how it was McLaren because McLaren had a massive advantage in Singapore race. Maybe it was because Red Bull couldn't change the height after qualifying.

[_cerber1]

If all teams have the device, and the key difference is that red bull have made the device accessible from the cockpit then the weight gain from doing that perhaps wouldn't be so bad.

You seem to have forgotten that Red Bull refused a special livery for Singapore, precisely for reasons of weight saving.

[mwillems]

If all teams have the device, and the key difference is that red bull have made the device accessible from the cockpit then the weight gain from doing that perhaps wouldn't be so bad.

You seem to have forgotten that Red Bull refused a special livery for Singapore, precisely for reasons of weight saving.

The weight gain would be as much as a tiny cable if all was required was a connection and coding.

I'd love to know how it is operated ordinarily and if this device is typically used on the bib by other teams and if so, is it placed in the cockpit ir somewhere else by the other teams.

[nico5]

It's funny how everyone loves the sport, including the fact that engineers look for grey areas in the regulations and try to gain an advantage by doing so. But when some team is caught on this grey zone, immediately starts ‘they are cheaters, how dare they’, especially it is funny if you understand that all the teams are also ‘cheating’, it's just not so easy to find.

This is not about gray areas or cheating the measuring parameters. This is straight out going against the rules betting on the FIA not finding out. It's fraudulent, if they used it as it's speculated.