Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Can anyone explain, is it that everyone has this means to automatically alter suspension through a device, or that an additional device to control it (located in the cockpit) has been found through the code.
My understanding was some additional means from the cockpit that isn't there on other cars, hence my belief around weight.
Because if this is something everyone has, and the only difference was the position of a controller, then why was the coding so different that it raised concerns?
Who said anything about "automatically"? No one said that. What has been mentioned is a mechanical device, what did you think, they press a button and car goes down?
Yes, it certainly seems like there was a means to operate the height of the floor from a device in the cockpit.
The denial stuff I take with a grain of salt, its the standard approach even if you had been dong something sketchy . Its also not proof said device was being used in the way said either.
It probably puts Stellas comments a while back into context re careful who about throwing stones or what it it was with their rear wing.
I think what any team says right now can be taken with a little skepticism. Red Bulls denial, well of course they would. And other teams pointing the finder well equally they've been doing that for years. RBR claim in how much McLarens rear win slot flex - I am sure it helped but am skeptical of if it really helped as much as RBR claimed All part of the game of F1 I think
Drivers have said they can't adjust it. It's not alterable once it's on the car. Let's see if Checo or Max is bothered by it.
“not alterable once it’s on the car” … so they’ve installed hardware on the racecar (adding weight to it) that has no function and does not operate when in/on the car? Does that mean it only works when off the car?
Drivers have said they can't adjust it. It's not alterable once it's on the car. Let's see if Checo or Max is bothered by it.
“not alterable once it’s on the car” … so they’ve installed hardware on the car (adding weight, no matter how little) that serves no purpose/function and does not operate when on the car? It only works when … off, the car?
This is taking with a grain of salt that RBR have not used it between parc ferme quali and the race .
The only thing I can think of there is its behind some components when the car is complete remove a few panels you can access what ever this tool is does. If it takes them normally 15 minutes to pull apart all the components to make the changes to ride height they can get this down to 5 minutes it could be of value in chasing setup/ Especially on sprint weekends with limited FP running.Weight wise, if under the required min weight and it its somewhere they are happy to have weight - low down and central? Is it a non issue. IN that, even if RBR were breaking the rules the standard response is to deny so....
Can anyone explain, is it that everyone has this means to automatically alter suspension through a device, or that an additional device to control it (located in the cockpit) has been found through the code.
My understanding was some additional means from the cockpit that isn't there on other cars, hence my belief around weight.
Because if this is something everyone has, and the only difference was the position of a controller, then why was the coding so different that it raised concerns?
It is not coding/computer controlled. At least from my understanding.
It was noticed in the open source documents/specifications of parts that all teams have to share (to make big investments in unimportant parts not worth it because they have to share the design).
It could be as simple as a removable panel behind which is an adjustment screw or similar.
Can anyone explain, is it that everyone has this means to automatically alter suspension through a device, or that an additional device to control it (located in the cockpit) has been found through the code.
My understanding was some additional means from the cockpit that isn't there on other cars, hence my belief around weight.
Because if this is something everyone has, and the only difference was the position of a controller, then why was the coding so different that it raised concerns?
It is not coding/computer controlled. At least from my understanding.
It was noticed in the open source documents/specifications of parts that all teams have to share (to make big investments in unimportant parts not worth it because they have to share the design).
It could be as simple as a removable panel behind which is an adjustment screw or similar.
Had that thought in my post above.
Taking Red Bull at their word (big if, not saying I do just if) that is has not been used between parc ferme if teh FIA and other teams things its maybe a little too easy for them. Say nose cone off, while on the grid mechanics working on the car turns a screw lowers the car. If normally that requires the car up on jacks with half the front end pulled apart may not get noticed. It could also be why Red Bull have this tool - if they indeed have done nothing wrong. If they can make setip changes that much quicker and minimal weight wise I can see how it may help.
Certainly going to be a close eye on their performance this weekend.
Can anyone explain, is it that everyone has this means to automatically alter suspension through a device, or that an additional device to control it (located in the cockpit) has been found through the code.
My understanding was some additional means from the cockpit that isn't there on other cars, hence my belief around weight.
Because if this is something everyone has, and the only difference was the position of a controller, then why was the coding so different that it raised concerns?
It is not coding/computer controlled. At least from my understanding.
It was noticed in the open source documents/specifications of parts that all teams have to share (to make big investments in unimportant parts not worth it because they have to share the design).
It could be as simple as a removable panel behind which is an adjustment screw or similar.
Nice, thanks. So this is an additional control device, do other teams have this device but somewhere else, or do they not have this control device and they simply plug into the bib raising/lowering mechanism to control it?
I got thrown by the idea there isn't an additional weight cost, but now I'm wondering if Red Bull were saying every team has the device that raises and lowers the floor, not necessarily that every team has a device on the car during race trim that can also control it.
Basically, if there is an additional control device them with any additional weight, you'd think they'd only be carrying it if there was a benefit..
Am I right in understanding that RB can safely continue to use this device during free practices? The FIA has simply decided to exclude the possibility of using it during the parc Ferme
Red Bull fits like a glove. The concept with the extremely high roll stiffness and in general the whole underbody concept with the high tunnel roof, the lack of porpoising, the mystery of how Red Bull can drive so low and the sudden big jumps in qualifying on Saturday, where you wondered how it could be that they were so far away on one day and then suddenly found themselves at the front again in qualifying and, according to Dr. Marko, suddenly found a lot of time again "overnight". Suddenly all the questions and puzzles about these "big jumps" during the night are more or less answered and everything makes sense and fits together. As for the explanations that you can't use the system once the car is assembled - that doesn't make it any better! If you invent such a system, you also design it so that it can be accessed in a few minutes with just a few simple steps. And if you have such a system, then of course you use it accordingly, otherwise you wouldn't put it on the car in the first place. And the question of whether you use it during a period that is definitely illegal, i.e. when the parc ferme rule is in force, in a world that is all about pure competition, performance and pressure to succeed, is one that I think everyone can answer for themselves. Unfortunately, it will not be possible to prove on the basis of pure circumstantial evidence whether Red Bull broke the parc ferme rule that Bernie and Max introduced in 2003 to harm Ferrari and take away one of their advantages. Either way, the whole thing leaves a stale aftertaste in relation to Red Bull, because there are countless moments where you wonder how this is possible beforehand and which now, with knowledge of this system and assuming that it was used accordingly, paint a perfect picture. And this image is more reminiscent of completely black, not gray things like hidden fuel/ballast tanks or devices for raising and lowering the vehicle height.
Sure, Red Bull will always say that they didn't use it at Parc Ferme and that it's not accessible, but sorry - as I said before, if you have such a system on the car you make sure it's accessible in a few minutes and of course you will and want to use it accordingly. If at the end of the day it's a matter of winning or losing, especially in F1, and if obviously nobody has a clue, then this option will be used accordingly. Anything else is naive.
Red Bull fits like a glove. The concept with the extremely high roll stiffness and in general the whole underbody concept with the high tunnel roof, the lack of porpoising, the mystery of how Red Bull can drive so low and the sudden big jumps in qualifying on Saturday, where you wondered how it could be that they were so far away on one day and then suddenly found themselves at the front again in qualifying and, according to Dr. Marko, suddenly found a lot of time again "overnight". Suddenly all the questions and puzzles about these "big jumps" during the night are more or less answered and everything makes sense and fits together. As for the explanations that you can't use the system once the car is assembled - that doesn't make it any better! If you invent such a system, you also design it so that it can be accessed in a few minutes with just a few simple steps. And if you have such a system, then of course you use it accordingly, otherwise you wouldn't put it on the car in the first place. And the question of whether you use it during a period that is definitely illegal, i.e. when the parc ferme rule is in force, in a world that is all about pure competition, performance and pressure to succeed, is one that I think everyone can answer for themselves. Unfortunately, it will not be possible to prove on the basis of pure circumstantial evidence whether Red Bull broke the parc ferme rule that Bernie and Max introduced in 2003 to harm Ferrari and take away one of their advantages. Either way, the whole thing leaves a stale aftertaste in relation to Red Bull, because there are countless moments where you wonder how this is possible beforehand and which now, with knowledge of this system and assuming that it was used accordingly, paint a perfect picture. And this image is more reminiscent of completely black, not gray things like hidden fuel/ballast tanks or devices for raising and lowering the vehicle height.
Sure, Red Bull will always say that they didn't use it at Parc Ferme and that it's not accessible, but sorry - as I said before, if you have such a system on the car you make sure it's accessible in a few minutes and of course you will and want to use it accordingly. If at the end of the day it's a matter of winning or losing, especially in F1, and if obviously nobody has a clue, then this option will be used accordingly. Anything else is naive.
What a low quality post with a lot of insinuations. They solved the porpoising through the smart solutions of the hundreds of engineers in the vehicle dynamics and aero departments. Already in the 2nd week of testin in 2021. This device was changed just before Singapore. RB has not been the best until Miami 2024 because they can have a lower floor in qualy and correct for the race.
As this device design was uploaded just before the Singapore GP it has nothing to do with the sudden jump in performance between Friday and Saturday we have seen in some GPs.
No engineer wants to win through illegal designs. Red Bull and all engineers in F1 teams want to develop smart solutions that push the envelope in terms of engineering but are still within the letter of the rule.
This device was likely there to aid in quick set up changes.
