Bib parc fermé ride height trick

[Shrieker]

Cheaters never prosper - except only in F1. Funny how some ppl are already trying their damndest to trivialize it...

[Watto]

Red Bull demo to the FIA scrutineers how the device works

Looks very obvious that its being done. As long as their is no other funny business RBR are hiding. Aka is the FIA comes knocking we will show them this

That said it also looks easy enought for them to change but its also obvious if this is the method being used its hard to see how they could make the changes ever week without being noticed.

[organic]

[Watto]

There was a bit before that with RBR mechanics showing the tool being used too. Its not something that can be done sneakily .

Even Ted who tend to be quick to jump on Red Bull said he things it is nothing having seen it been demoed.

It does look simple and easy to make setup changes. Don't know though how it compares to how other teams do it

[chrisc90]

FIA apparently looking at all cars now.

[Raleigh]

There was a bit before that with RBR mechanics showing the tool being used too. Its not something that can be done sneakily .

Even Ted who tend to be quick to jump on Red Bull said he things it is nothing having seen it been demoed.

It does look simple and easy to make setup changes. Don't know though how it compares to how other teams do it

Easiest way to be sneaky would be to do that completely in the open under the pretense of adjusting pedals.

Because there is no way the FIA scrutineer can see exactly what a mechanic is working on while reaching down into that hatch with a little 1/4 hand ratchet.

I can promise you, the tool Red Bull demoed is definitely not the only way to make that adjustment.

[senja]

Max on the T-tray 'trick' ban: "We didn't even discuss it in the briefing."

"It's a public, right? Everyone can see it. For us, it was an easy tool when the parts were not on the car. It was easy to adjust the car, but once the whole car was built together, you couldn't touch it.

It doesn't change anything. When I read it, I thought other teams were using it. Then I found out it was about us, we didn't even discuss it in the briefing."

Seemingly no one wearing an RBR shirt gets that just because you claim it is not very effective does not excuse you from the fact that it could be used to make changes when strictly prohibited not to, which is most likely what it was used for.

Where is that fact? That's not confirmed. There is just accusation...

[thestig84]

There was a bit before that with RBR mechanics showing the tool being used too. Its not something that can be done sneakily .

Even Ted who tend to be quick to jump on Red Bull said he things it is nothing having seen it been demoed.

It does look simple and easy to make setup changes. Don't know though how it compares to how other teams do it

Easiest way to be sneaky would be to do that completely in the open under the pretense of adjusting pedals.

Because there is no way the FIA scrutineer can see exactly what a mechanic is working on while reaching down into that hatch with a little 1/4 hand ratchet.

I can promise you, the tool Red Bull demoed is definitely not the only way to make that adjustment.

Exactly what I thought....put an enormous extension on a powered ratchet to make it look hard to hide. Both unnecessary!

[senja]

Schmidt (AMuS) writes that McLaren denigrated RBR at the FIA, some sort of revenge for the rear wing saga in Baku.

A cover in the cockpit must be removed and a tool is necessary to change the initial load of the spring.

Not possible in the forbidden time without notice (parc ferme).

If we want to give benefit of the doubt to Red Bull it would be great to know how load of the spring is changed on other cars. Is it much more complicated or just a matter of doing it outside of the cockpit (below the car). If it is simple to change it on other cars and there is no real benefit of putting it inside the cockpit, then we probably shouldn't trust Red Bull story that they never used it in parc ferme.

Tools in the cockpit is probably done for various other things (pedal adjustment for example).

This makes absolute sense, RB20 is absolutely not a car that is capable of exploiting elevated or softer front bib with their excessively stiff front end. If they exploited this in Q at least, they would have been able to run a lot better over kerbs and bumps - but they can't due to inherit suspension limit, in which case running a bib tilted up is probably even hurting you. McLaren's softer front end, eg, would be perfect to exploit this kind of device and they do have the Q speed and the best Q/R pace balance of all cars.

On the other hand, neither RB18 or RB19 were better in Q than R, so having such a change available on their cars would have resulted in a lot better Q3 performance in two previous seasons. I never suspected RB to be the targeted team, they simply have too many issues that such a setup change between Q and R would compensate.

Whatever the theory, having an ability to run slightly different setup in qualifying compared to the race is a benefit. If what you say RB20 maybe is not the car that would gain from such a change as much as others, but they would still gain something. That much is blatantly obvious. This is just the nature of having a fixed setup after qualifying. You need to make compromises. Being able to change a few things means less compromises are needed.

If I may add further to this, I despise having discussions about 'not having gained an advantage' after a team having themselves admitted breaching the rules.
Either I do have rules, or not.
FIA by their interpretation have found RB being in breach of this regs, which RBR have confirmed.

Who can actually say that it has not contributed to the performance of the car?
Nobody but RBR, and the statement they made about not having used it between Q & R may be believed, or not.

Bottom line to me, why has RBR brought the device into the car as it is, if it not to gain an advantage?

Wtf? Where are you hear such nonsense? Understanding skills of some people...

[senja]

If the idea is to raise the front bib for Q setup, this will be done primarily to set the car up for riding lower than bumps and kerbs would "allow" and the negative aspect would be creating a small gap that will increase drag and lift locally. If you can't ride bumps and kerbs for other reasons, you'd probably only get the negatives out of it.

If you have an overall setup for maximum cornering speed in high-speed corners (ie you are already running at the lowest attitude) this kind of front bib geometry won't help you running lower since your car is already as low as possible. It can only bring the negatives of local lift and drag increase.

All of this is based on an assumption of very flexible floor and plank and both of those grey areas have already been addressed in recent years

Can we agree that being able to run two different setups in qualy and race is usually beneficial? We can speculate as much as we want and think how much it could help, but I think the basics of it are simple. If you are able to make a change in parc ferme, that is almost certainly an advantage (or at least opportunity for an advantage).

Maybe in some cases you don't need to make a change because it's perfect as is, but for things like ride height which are affected by the weight, I think it doesn't work that way.

First of all, it need to be proven that it can be changed. Then, it need to be proven that it was/is changed under parc ferme. Until that, you can only bark...

[scuderiabrandon]

Max on the T-tray 'trick' ban: "We didn't even discuss it in the briefing."

"It's a public, right? Everyone can see it. For us, it was an easy tool when the parts were not on the car. It was easy to adjust the car, but once the whole car was built together, you couldn't touch it.

It doesn't change anything. When I read it, I thought other teams were using it. Then I found out it was about us, we didn't even discuss it in the briefing."

Seemingly no one wearing an RBR shirt gets that just because you claim it is not very effective does not excuse you from the fact that it could be used to make changes when strictly prohibited not to, which is most likely what it was used for.

Where is that fact? That's not confirmed. There is just accusation...

"Could" “most likely” is not assertive language. It's speculative, speculation can not lead to accusations.

[Quantum]

There was a bit before that with RBR mechanics showing the tool being used too. Its not something that can be done sneakily .

Even Ted who tend to be quick to jump on Red Bull said he things it is nothing having seen it been demoed.

It does look simple and easy to make setup changes. Don't know though how it compares to how other teams do it

Easiest way to be sneaky would be to do that completely in the open under the pretense of adjusting pedals.

Because there is no way the FIA scrutineer can see exactly what a mechanic is working on while reaching down into that hatch with a little 1/4 hand ratchet.

I can promise you, the tool Red Bull demoed is definitely not the only way to make that adjustment.

Exactly what I thought....put an enormous extension on a powered ratchet to make it look hard to hide. Both unnecessary!

Reminded me of this...


Do Liberty film the cars as they're being race prepped? Or are there screens in place prior to cars leaving the garage?
Be interesting to know, as even on the grid we see mechanics of all teams reaching into the cockpit and footwell before the drivers get in.

[Vanja #66]

Looks like many members will find this video quite revealing. Parc Ferme details at 7:22

[Venturiation]

There was a bit before that with RBR mechanics showing the tool being used too. Its not something that can be done sneakily .

Even Ted who tend to be quick to jump on Red Bull said he things it is nothing having seen it been demoed.

It does look simple and easy to make setup changes. Don't know though how it compares to how other teams do it

Easiest way to be sneaky would be to do that completely in the open under the pretense of adjusting pedals.

Because there is no way the FIA scrutineer can see exactly what a mechanic is working on while reaching down into that hatch with a little 1/4 hand ratchet.

I can promise you, the tool Red Bull demoed is definitely not the only way to make that adjustment.

the fia could check old garage footage broadcasted to see if it has ever happened on camera

[Watto]

Easiest way to be sneaky would be to do that completely in the open under the pretense of adjusting pedals.

Because there is no way the FIA scrutineer can see exactly what a mechanic is working on while reaching down into that hatch with a little 1/4 hand ratchet.

I can promise you, the tool Red Bull demoed is definitely not the only way to make that adjustment.

Exactly what I thought....put an enormous extension on a powered ratchet to make it look hard to hide. Both unnecessary!

Reminded me of this...
https://twitter.com/NotBrockPierson/sta ... 8568730642

Do Liberty film the cars as they're being race prepped? Or are there screens in place prior to cars leaving the garage?
Be interesting to know, as even on the grid we see mechanics of all teams reaching into the cockpit and footwell before the drivers get in.

The FIA has a camera right above the car recording everything being done while in the garage.

The demo RBR showed was way too cumbersome IMO to go unnoticed too long. One off maybe but too often and someone from the FIA would look and wonder what is this,

Scrutineers have access to garages even when closed, looked at old grid footage they are watching every car being prepped on the grid too in front of each car etc.

There are scrutineers around while on the grid too. The tool and method Red Bull demped is way too cumbersome to go unnoticed too long. One off maybe. But week after week, I think Ted said it not a chance they do this without the FIA scrutineer at some point looking thing