2024 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 18-20

[Tvetovnato]

My initial thoughts on the Max/Lando 'overtake' was very similar to Max/Lewis in Brazil 2021.
Watched the replay and seen Max was late on the brakes to allow his car to be ahead at the apex. That gives him the corner via the rulebook for overtaking cars. It allows him to run out wide and effectively 'force' the overtaking car off track due to being ahead at the apex.

What it does it give a 'grey area' of the rules when the 'defending car' owns the corner. From what ive seen, Max went off himself. But because Lando wasnt ahead at the apex, its still Max's corner by the rules.

Be interesting to see some replays and the stewards documents for it to show reasoning.

Yeah, and that ahead at the apex ruling is what ruins racing. The rule works like this (for someone deciding to take full advantage of it):

I am on the inside defending. I see that I am about to lose my position, so my last resort will be to send the car unreasonably fast towards the apex, because I know that I will have the right to the corner if I am just slightly ahead at the apex. I know that what happens right AFTER the apex has no bearing at all. It doesn’t matter if I am leaving the track afterwards and taking the attacking car with me, I JUST. NEED. THAT. APEX and all is good, I can then do what I want.

How anyone can consider that fair racing is beyond me. How they cannot consider the attacking car (if it is slightly ahead/fully alongside at corner entry) to have the right to track space at the exit of the corner is insanity. But that is exactly how they rule these situations now. There was backlash by everyone after Brazil in 2021 for this type of move, and yet it continues. Absolutely bizarre.

[chrisc90]

My initial thoughts on the Max/Lando 'overtake' was very similar to Max/Lewis in Brazil 2021.
Watched the replay and seen Max was late on the brakes to allow his car to be ahead at the apex. That gives him the corner via the rulebook for overtaking cars. It allows him to run out wide and effectively 'force' the overtaking car off track due to being ahead at the apex.

What it does it give a 'grey area' of the rules when the 'defending car' owns the corner. From what ive seen, Max went off himself. But because Lando wasnt ahead at the apex, its still Max's corner by the rules.

Be interesting to see some replays and the stewards documents for it to show reasoning.

Yeah, and that ahead at the apex ruling is what ruins racing. The rule works like this (for someone deciding to take full advantage of it):

I am on the inside defending. I see that I am about to lose my position, so my last resort will be to send the car unreasonably fast towards the apex, because I know that I will have the right to the corner if I am just slightly ahead at the apex. I know that what happens right AFTER the apex has no bearing at all. It doesn’t matter if I am leaving the track afterwards and taking the attacking car with me, I JUST. NEED. THAT. APEX and all is good, I can then do what I want.

How anyone can consider that fair racing is beyond me. How they cannot consider the attacking car (if it is slightly ahead/fully alongside at corner entry) to have the right to track space at the exit of the corner is insanity. But that is exactly how they rule these situations now. There was backlash by everyone after Brazil in 2021 for this type of move, and yet it continues. Absolutely bizarre.

I agree that the defending car should remain fully on track. I think if Max had stayed on track, then id fully agree that it was completely fair. Given there then becomes 2 seperate instances of the overtaking move, being ahead at the apex, then becoming a track limits violation, is what needs clearing up IMHO. Perfectly fine to do what Max did and remain on track, but dont run wide. Problem then comes with remaining in control of the car. Its a crappy situation to be in, and as the rules stand at the minute, its the right outcome, but sporting wise, its a bit crappy.

[organic]

Norris can't be run off the road by the other driver divebombing to get to the apex first.. and then lose right to the corner to someone who can't make the corner on the inside haha. This is ridiculous

Ever since the "first to apex" rule came in it's been pointed out how stupid it is and Verstappen demonstrates it again. He's the master of finding rule interpretations that will allow him to force others off

Even if by the letter of the law perhaps it's allowed with a certain interpretation, with common sense the stewards had the opportunity to realise that Verstappen never made the corner which is the only reason why he could make the apex first.

[chrisc90]

Thats also very naughty from Lando. How that went without investigation is beyond me.

[cliffgamerz]

Norris can't be run off the road by the other driver divebombing to get to the apex first.. and then lose right to the corner to someone who can't make the corner on the inside haha. This is ridiculous

Ever since the "first to apex" rule came in it's been pointed out how stupid it is and Verstappen demonstrates it again. He's the master of finding rule interpretations that will allow him to force others off

i agree, what has happened has happened for now, but moving forward this rule has to be clearly clarified as it should not repeat and a clear penalty should be applied for such dangerous maneuver.

[bananapeel23]

Colapinto is the real deal.

He's absolutely crushing it!

[Sevach]

Colapinto is the real deal.

He's absolutely crushing it!

Lawson also shined today.

[Sevach]

Norris can't be run off the road by the other driver divebombing to get to the apex first.. and then lose right to the corner to someone who can't make the corner on the inside haha. This is ridiculous

Ever since the "first to apex" rule came in it's been pointed out how stupid it is and Verstappen demonstrates it again. He's the master of finding rule interpretations that will allow him to force others off

Even if by the letter of the law perhaps it's allowed with a certain interpretation, with common sense the stewards had the opportunity to realise that Verstappen never made the corner which is the only reason why he could make the apex first.

The rule should be must leave a cars width on the outside, if you don't 10s.
This first to the Apex needs to go.

[bananapeel23]

Colapinto is the real deal.

He's absolutely crushing it!

Lawson also shined today.

True! We already kind of knew Lawson was good though.

There is just something about Franco that really feels absolutely exceptional to me. That man is going to find his way into the Ferrari seat when Hamilton retires. I just have a gut feeling.

I reckon it's either Williams->VCARB->Ferrari or Williams->Sauber/Audi->Ferrari.

[chrisc90]

I don’t mind the apex bit, infact I’d move it slightly before. So straight line across the track before the apex of the corner starts. Put a thin line on the track for reference during replays and clears up any confusion.

[Luscion]

Wth happened to the lego trophies? Why did they get small wheels for trophies?

I am guessing Disney stepped in and filed a trademark threat against the "Mickey" trophies, Pirelli took down all references from their website as well..

Pulled cause they resembled a similar design (most likely bearbrick)

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/miss ... /10665137/

[dialtone]

This is the most embarrassing thing I've ever read and I don't think I will ever read something so incompetent in my entire life ever again. Fire all the stewards.

[pantherxxx]

This is the most embarrassing thing I've ever read and I don't think I will ever read something so incompetent in my entire life ever again. Fire all the stewards.

Why? Stewards were right and they clearly stated why.

[dialtone]

Why? Stewards were right and they clearly stated why.

You cannot do math with penalties, what are you talking about? Give each their rightful penalty, there's another 20 drivers on track.

[zeph]

Verstappen really showed his class today. Not a fan, but it was there for the world to see.

I also feel that since McLaren came good Norris has fallen just a bit short of expectations.

But bravo Ferrari! They’re gonna miss Sainz, for sure.