2024 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 18-20

[dialtone]

Why? Stewards were right and they clearly stated why.

You cannot do math with penalties, what are you talking about? Give each their rightful penalty, there's another 20 drivers on track.

Lando Norris received a 5-second time penalty because he overtook Max Verstappen by going off the track at Turn 12, which is considered gaining a lasting advantage by leaving the track. As per the FIA's rules, if a driver leaves the track and overtakes another car, they must give the position back, as leaving the track in this way is generally not allowed.

Verstappen didn't receive a penalty because, although he also left the track, he didn't gain an advantage by doing so. According to the stewards' decision, Verstappen (Car 1) was ahead of Norris (Car 4) at the apex of the corner, meaning he had the "right" to the corner under the Driving Standards Guidelines.

The penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage is 10 seconds. If Verstappen pushed him out then he should get a penalty, if Verstappen did nothing wrong then there's no discount and you just give 10 seconds.

Ferrari benefits from this given the point allocation, but it's a shockingly incompetent decision, I don't think there's much that can convince me otherwise so I will not belabor the point much further here unless something really new is pointed out. To me that's really among the top 10 of worst calls from the stewards in 30+ years of following F1 they should all be reprimanded or at least receive a strongly worded letter.

[pantherxxx]

You cannot do math with penalties, what are you talking about? Give each their rightful penalty, there's another 20 drivers on track.

Lando Norris received a 5-second time penalty because he overtook Max Verstappen by going off the track at Turn 12, which is considered gaining a lasting advantage by leaving the track. As per the FIA's rules, if a driver leaves the track and overtakes another car, they must give the position back, as leaving the track in this way is generally not allowed.

Verstappen didn't receive a penalty because, although he also left the track, he didn't gain an advantage by doing so. According to the stewards' decision, Verstappen (Car 1) was ahead of Norris (Car 4) at the apex of the corner, meaning he had the "right" to the corner under the Driving Standards Guidelines.

The penalty for leaving the track and gaining an advantage is 10 seconds. If Verstappen pushed him out then he should get a penalty, if Verstappen did nothing wrong then there's no discount and you just give 10 seconds.

Ferrari benefits from this given the point allocation, but it's a shockingly incompetent decision, I don't think there's much that can convince me otherwise so I will not belabor the point much further here unless something really new is pointed out. To me that's really among the top 10 of worst calls from the stewards in 30+ years of following F1 they should all be reprimanded or at least receive a strongly worded letter.

The rules allow the stewards some discretion when determining penalties, especially in complex situations like this one. While Verstappen's move may have left Norris with little space and forced him off the track, it wasn't illegal according to the current regulations because Verstappen was ahead at the apex, which gave him the right to the racing line.

The stewards acknowledged that Norris didn't have much choice but to go off track due to Verstappen's position, which is why they reduced the penalty to 5 seconds instead of the usual 10. This shows that they took into account the specific circumstances of the incident, including the lack of space caused by Verstappen's position.

[dialtone]

The stewards acknowledged that Norris didn't have much choice but to go off track due to Verstappen's position, which is why they reduced the penalty to 5 seconds instead of the usual 10. This shows that they took into account the specific circumstances of the incident, including the lack of space caused by Verstappen's position.

This isn't valid reasoning to me. It's fine that Norris had no alternative and did what he did. He also had some laps to return the position back which he didn't do. Fully penalize 10 seconds then if you believe he was in the wrong. Norris had 10-15 laps to pass Max and waited the last 5 laps to make moves, that's on him.

The stewards interpretation has to be fully eliminated by the rulebook because they cannot be trusted with it. Until FIA hires full time stewards this will remain a joke.

Personally I think Max lost the right to the corner when his car went off track as well, at that point you penalize both or you penalize neither, but I don't really care that much about this, I care more about the penalty administration, it should have been full 10 seconds.

What would you say if Lando managed to pull the 5s gap in front of Max? Would you then be ok with the penalty being just 5s because of that reasoning?

EDIT: Rewatched the race and SAI passed MAX on lap 1, he was ahead at the apex (not by much, half a wheel but that's still ahead), then Max passed back off track, this wasn't penalized, commentators mentioned how SAI needed to give position back because he left track.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Well what a joke that was. Max ran Lando off the track at the start and the end and everyone got penalties for this except him.

Lando took Max on the outside. Max carried the speed and couldn't make the corner. So Lando had nowhere to go. And Lando gets a penalty for this ? What a joke. All they had to do was give no penalties for it.

[organic]

Well what a joke that was. Max ran Lando off the track at the start and the end and everyone got penalties for this except him.

Lando took Max on the outside. Max carried the speed and couldn't make the corner. So Lando had nowhere to go. And Lando gets a penalty for this ? What a joke. All they had to do was give no penalties for it.

Max games the system once again

[TeamKoolGreen]

Why? Stewards were right and they clearly stated why.

You cannot do math with penalties, what are you talking about? Give each their rightful penalty, there's another 20 drivers on track.

Lando Norris received a 5-second time penalty because he overtook Max Verstappen by going off the track at Turn 12, which is considered gaining a lasting advantage by leaving the track. As per the FIA's rules, if a driver leaves the track and overtakes another car, they must give the position back, as leaving the track in this way is generally not allowed.

Verstappen didn't receive a penalty because, although he also left the track, he didn't gain an advantage by doing so. According to the stewards' decision, Verstappen (Car 1) was ahead of Norris (Car 4) at the apex of the corner, meaning he had the "right" to the corner under the Driving Standards Guidelines.

You can dress it up with politically correct lingo all you want. The right call was to give no penalties at all. Like they do all the time. Like they did when Max carried too much speed on the first lap into turn one and pushed Lando off the track.

[selvam_e2002]

golden boy saved by FIA.....again..... nice job by FIA....

[pantherxxx]

To summarize everything:

Here’s a breakdown of what happened:

-Verstappen was ahead at the apex of the corner, giving him the "right" to the racing line.
-Both Verstappen and Norris went off the track, but Verstappen didn’t gain a position or hold onto a position (since Norris overtook him).
-Norris overtook Verstappen off the track and then didn’t give the position back, which is considered gaining a lasting advantage.
-So, because Norris was the one who completed the overtake while off the track, the penalty went to him, not Verstappen. Norris didn’t give the position back after going off, which is why he was penalized. The stewards only penalize drivers who gain a lasting advantage in these situations, and in this case, it was Norris, not Verstappen.

The key factor here is that Norris overtook Verstappen by going off the track, which is why only Norris gained a lasting advantage.

Verstappen was being clever and playing within the limits of the rules. By positioning himself ahead of Norris at the apex, Verstappen secured the "right" to the corner, which allowed him to take the racing line even if it meant both cars went off track. Since he didn't gain the position by going off, he avoided a penalty, making it a smart and tactical move within the framework of the rules.

[dialtone]

Verstappen was being clever and playing within the limits of the rules. By positioning himself ahead of Norris at the apex, Verstappen secured the "right" to the corner, which allowed him to take the racing line even if it meant both cars went off track. Since he didn't gain the position by going off, he avoided a penalty, making it a smart and tactical move within the framework of the rules.

Now replace Verstappen with Sainz and Lando with Verstappen.

Edit: although to be honest I’m ok with that one as SAI would have tried to crash LEC to try and win the race while he sat nicely behind VER for 22 laps.

[Dunlay]

After the stupid display of racing at the first lap first corner, I am happy it's not Max who won the race. Stewards should have penalized him for that as they did to him in Vegas last year for pushing Leclerc like he did in this race. The inconsistency of stewards is really annoying.

[purestpurist]

Stupid decision created by stupid rules, but I'm disturbed by pundits now claiming this year's title has been "gifted" to Max on the basis of a 6 point swing. Reminds me of a different season where Max clearly outperformed his rival but only won by a narrow margin due to horrible luck. A single controversial decision was used as a scapegoat by the usual suspects to deflect blame away from their idol, and it appears the foundation for a similar narrative has been set today.

[AMG.Tzan]

Not really, better car yes but worse driver. Max beats them all pure talent.

The pure talent has gone 9 races winless in car fast enough to win and can only stay ahead by doing dodgy maneuvers and pushing everyone off the track! Wow what a proud moment to be a Verstapen fan…

If that was the 2008 FIA-Hamilton relationship…Verstapen would have been banned for life!

Better than qualifying a car good enough to win races this year at p19, then beaching it like a beginner. Infinitely better.

Not gonna start a results conversation about Hamilton now!

Go ahead and watch 2008, 2017 and 2018 if you wanna see what’s it’s like having a 2-3rd fastest car and still winning

[AMG.Tzan]

Why? Stewards were right and they clearly stated why.

You cannot do math with penalties, what are you talking about? Give each their rightful penalty, there's another 20 drivers on track.

Lando Norris received a 5-second time penalty because he overtook Max Verstappen by going off the track at Turn 12, which is considered gaining a lasting advantage by leaving the track. As per the FIA's rules, if a driver leaves the track and overtakes another car, they must give the position back, as leaving the track in this way is generally not allowed.

Verstappen didn't receive a penalty because, although he also left the track, he didn't gain an advantage by doing so. According to the stewards' decision, Verstappen (Car 1) was ahead of Norris (Car 4) at the apex of the corner, meaning he had the "right" to the corner under the Driving Standards Guidelines.

Max did exactly the same move on the outside on Sainz and still kept his place without any penalties.

Classic biased stewarding…

[JordanMugen]

This isn't valid reasoning to me. It's fine that Norris had no alternative and did what he did.

Norris could have eased off the throttle when he was off track, instead of keeping his foot in it and overtaking while off the circuit!

Of course Norris had an alternative choice. Norris' penalty is for that rather blatant breach.

What would you say if Lando managed to pull the 5s gap in front of Max? Would you then be ok with the penalty being just 5s because of that reasoning?

Sure, why not? 5s is the standard penalty and consistent with what Norris and Verstappen would be expecting.

Norris' penalty (far from "inconsistent" or "showing bias" as some claim) is entirely consistent with precedent, Gasly was given an identical 5s penalty in exactly the same Grand Prix.

Norris could either ease off the throttle to not overtake while off circuit, or note his mistake and redress immediately, or (as his choice) anticipate the penalty and build a 5s gap. It's rather straight-forward.

Well what a joke that was. Max ran Lando off the track at the start and the end and everyone got penalties for this except him.

Nonsense. Albon ran into Ocon at turn 1 and was similarly not penalised. Everyone knows turn 1 is interpreted differently. Norris escorting Verstappen wide (or onto the grass on the main straight from the start line as in Spanish GP) would similarly not be penalised.

[JordanMugen]

Greatness is not a measure of how much of a bully you are, but how much more competent you are in your skill!

Verstappen's racing style is really not significantly different to Senna or Schumacher.

Rivals are more than entitled to force the issue and accept the collision instead of conceding. It's not club racing, for better or worse, Verstappen doesn't care about damage (as an owner-driver like Jack Brabham might, especially in the less safe cars of that era) so why should rivals care about damage?

someone has to think twice or thrice before trying to ovetake him...

The rival can just accept the collision though?