2024 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 18-20

[F1NAC]

Just add fake gravel at T12 and problem solved.

[Rikhart]

Just add fake gravel at T12 and problem solved.

Just add gravel or grass everywhere, all of these issues would go away like magic.

[CjC]

Just add fake gravel at T12 and problem solved.

Just add gravel or grass everywhere, all of these issues would go away like magic.

600mm of grass on the out side of all of the corners for me

[dialtone]

Reducing the quality of racing isn’t a fix for the problem.

[dialtone]

Here’s an interesting reddit post with all the rule changes instigated by Max’s behavior:

https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ ... rstappens/

I will point out the driving off track from the 2021 brazil incident that clearly wasn’t applied here but is spot on applicable but stewards forgot it exists.

[MYsee]

Norris should have gotten a 10-second penalty, Max a 5-second penalty and Piastri should have finished third.

[Zynerji]

Simply losing interest in watching "fūck you" race maneuvers. Inducing Lift-or-Die situations should be black flagged and get a 10 race ban.

I'd just let the crash happen in these situations until they are forced to stop by their teams or the FIA.

I'm not even sure I will finish watching 2024... The finesse is the appeal. This is NASCAR lite.

[FW17]

Here’s an interesting reddit post with all the rule changes instigated by Max’s behavior:

https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ ... rstappens/

I will point out the driving off track from the 2021 brazil incident that clearly wasn’t applied here but is spot on applicable but stewards forgot it exists.

Pls understand FIA and drivers lobbying for rules that have a bias for defending driver. This is the DRS era when the defending driver is helpless, in most cases it is a blow past. If that does not happen and it gets stretched to the braking zone, I totally understand the current rules favoring defending driver both when they are on the inside or outside.

Rules are understandable when the overtaking driver already such a huge advantage.

[dialtone]

Pls understand FIA and drivers lobbying for rules that have a bias for defending driver. This is the DRS era when the defending driver is helpless, in most cases it is a blow past. If that does not happen and it gets stretched to the braking zone, I totally understand the current rules favoring defending driver both when they are on the inside or outside.

Rules are understandable when the overtaking driver already such a huge advantage.

This is not how FIA/FOM reason. They introduced this new formula with the explicit intent to make it easier to follow closely and still kept DRS. They want more overtakes and more battles. If the car overtaken is fast, when they will get DRS post passing they can pass back again. Making it easier to pass is the whole point of these rules.

[FW17]

Pls understand FIA and drivers lobbying for rules that have a bias for defending driver. This is the DRS era when the defending driver is helpless, in most cases it is a blow past. If that does not happen and it gets stretched to the braking zone, I totally understand the current rules favoring defending driver both when they are on the inside or outside.

Rules are understandable when the overtaking driver already such a huge advantage.

This is not how FIA/FOM reason. They introduced this new formula with the explicit intent to make it easier to follow closely and still kept DRS. They want more overtakes and more battles. If the car overtaken is fast, when they will get DRS post passing they can pass back again. Making it easier to pass is the whole point of these rules.

Intent statements are pc statement, wordings are the actual intent.

[dialtone]

Intent statements are pc statement, wordings are the actual intent.

You think making the cars is not enough?

[basti313]

Here’s an interesting reddit post with all the rule changes instigated by Max’s behavior:

https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ ... rstappens/

I will point out the driving off track from the 2021 brazil incident that clearly wasn’t applied here but is spot on applicable but stewards forgot it exists.

Pls understand FIA and drivers lobbying for rules that have a bias for defending driver. This is the DRS era when the defending driver is helpless, in most cases it is a blow past. If that does not happen and it gets stretched to the braking zone, I totally understand the current rules favoring defending driver both when they are on the inside or outside.

Rules are understandable when the overtaking driver already such a huge advantage.

I do not think this is correct. There is no wording on this in the rules.
The only thing that matters for what you say is, who is in front at the apex. This is not depending on who is defending.

[FW17]

Here’s an interesting reddit post with all the rule changes instigated by Max’s behavior:

https://reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ ... rstappens/

I will point out the driving off track from the 2021 brazil incident that clearly wasn’t applied here but is spot on applicable but stewards forgot it exists.

Pls understand FIA and drivers lobbying for rules that have a bias for defending driver. This is the DRS era when the defending driver is helpless, in most cases it is a blow past. If that does not happen and it gets stretched to the braking zone, I totally understand the current rules favoring defending driver both when they are on the inside or outside.

Rules are understandable when the overtaking driver already such a huge advantage.

I do not think this is correct. There is no wording on this in the rules.
The only thing that matters for what you say is, who is in front at the apex. This is not depending on who is defending.

You probably expect 2022 FIA tech regulations to start with "written for Adrian Newey as he worked on 1980's GE Indycars.

If they overtaking driver is on the inside and ahead at the apex, he still has to give a cars width at the exit for the driver being overtaken (if he is anywhere near)

[basti313]

Pls understand FIA and drivers lobbying for rules that have a bias for defending driver. This is the DRS era when the defending driver is helpless, in most cases it is a blow past. If that does not happen and it gets stretched to the braking zone, I totally understand the current rules favoring defending driver both when they are on the inside or outside.

Rules are understandable when the overtaking driver already such a huge advantage.

I do not think this is correct. There is no wording on this in the rules.
The only thing that matters for what you say is, who is in front at the apex. This is not depending on who is defending.

You probably expect 2022 FIA tech regulations to start with "written for Adrian Newey as he worked on 1980's GE Indycars.

If they overtaking driver is on the inside and ahead at the apex, he still has to give a cars width at the exit for the driver being overtaken (if he is anywhere near)

1. This is not a topic of tech regulations. The document is called "Driving Standards Guidelines".
2. No. Black and white in the "Driving Standards Guidelines"
In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car....overtaking car is ahead of the other car from the apex of the corner...

I do not know why people here, that have no clue about the guidelines, have such a strong opinion.

Funny thing even Sky UK realized three days after the race, that there are actually written rules, that one can read in F1: https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... ules-clear

[Francis Bacon]

Everbody quiet! My time to talk!

I agree with the ruling for Norris going off the track. It's yet another example of unpolished racecraft from Norris, not quite a champion driver yet. He's looks to be still on the learning curve. What he did, is a common move that Max used to do in the past, which is not trying to brake later than the defender to the Apex, only just sided by side and then running wide to overtake on the outside of the track. I was never phased by the ruling because it was a slam dunk.

You literally cannot attack Max from the outside of a curve entry. It will fall. He's knows all too well to let his car run "off the brakes" to crowd your apex and run you off the road. You have to attack him from inside or even better yet on the straight.

I'm just ever more convinced now that Lando is the quickest driver but not that great at wheel to wheel.

I have to disagree with you about race craft. During the overtake in question, Lando's timing and car control we're superb, but it was upset by Max's poorly-executed late braking and over shooting the corner (making the "mistake" on purpose I should add).

There is literally nothing he any driver could have done about it except what he did. If he hadn't given Max space would have been a collision.

What were seeing in Lando now is caution. One DNF and his quest for the championship is over. Not so for Max. So going forward, expect both to drive accordingly.

IMHO, if a defending driver runs himself off track, and frustrates the overtake and runs the other driver off, to me that is also leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Such an infraction should result in giving up the place, or a 5-10 penalty, depending.

The rules can't be such that outside overtakes can be squashed by simply braking too late and going off track.