Christian Horner comes swinging with the telemetry
He has said Lando Norris entered T4 15km/h faster during his battle with Max Verstappen versus his quickest lap, and claims that Norris "wouldn't have made the corner"
The two main things they need to work on is the ride and the management. We’ve been fast enough in the past to ignore our hatred of Curbs but now they really need to get on top of itAR3-GP wrote: ↑28 Oct 2024, 02:02I also think 2025 is going to have issues. 2025 is not a time for fundamental architectural changes. Like we saw from 2020 to 2021, it's only a matter of limited evolution because you need to spend more time on the 2026 cars.Paa wrote: ↑28 Oct 2024, 01:35I agree all of these. I even anticipated something like this for the end of the season around summer time.
What is even more worrying that Red Bull don't give any vibes suggesting that they know what is going on and will be able to come back strong for next season. And then the questionable engine comes into picture for 2026.
At this point there is no sign of positive turnaround at the horizont.
Mclaren and Ferrari are the favorites for 2025. They have a great base car to continue developing. They will evolve their cars like RB18-> RB19. Red Bull's original RB18 concept has been obsoleted. They benefitted from having a car which could be developed to its ceiling the quickest. Mclaren and Ferrari have adapted fundamentally different approaches to generating performance and it took them longer, but their ceiling is higher than that of the original Red Bull concept. They don't rely on infinite stiffness and high speed corners to win a GP. It's a huge effort for Red Bull to change course and they can't afford to do all of that while staying on top of 2026 development.
With a bad setup, if you have an understeery or oversteery car, you will destroy the tires. Verstappen didn't even have a proper FP1 or FP2 session, so that's probably the reason. It's similar to Norris, who had a bad setup in the Austin Sprint and killed the tires in just 10 laps.Xyz22 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2024, 02:00How is it possible that Max was almost slower than the Mercedes?
Can someone provide an explanation how is it possible to lose so much relative performance within a season? I've never seen this happening before outside some insane cases like Brawn GP 2009 because they ran out of money
I just don't see how you can change the car that much fundamentally in 1 winter where you need to keep another eye and budget towards 2026.
Honestly turned out of Marko long ago.
Yes but they aren't going to be using that extra time on the 2025 car. It has to go to 2026. That's the logical thing to do.pantherxxx wrote: ↑28 Oct 2024, 02:52It's all about wind tunnel time. McLaren and Ferrari are now strong because they were only 4th and 3rd in 2023. Interestingly, Red Bull and Mercedes have fallen back in performance. Once Red Bull can use more wind tunnel time again, they can fix their aero issues and build a competitive car once more. Wind tunnel time directly affects aerodynamics, which is a major factor in overall car performance. More testing helps improve the correlation between the wind tunnel and CFD, leading to a better understanding of real-world performance. Additional wind tunnel time accelerates the pace of updates, allowing these teams to introduce new components more often and stay competitive throughout the season—just as we saw with McLaren and Ferrari.
The RBR engineers will be left scratching their heads. An update package that was supposed to give them stability and performance is still a bit too temperamental. More work to be done in MK it seems.
Which worries you a lot for the 2025 car. That they still don't have a very good handle on he problems. Max is out driving the car still it seems.
Ferrari fell off after Monza and now have returned to form. And are now at a peak again. But if you add up all the peaks and valleys for Ferarri and Mercedes, I don't see how Ferrari is ahead. Russell had the pole in Silverstone. With no DNF's or DSQ, that was a Mercedes 1,2 finish 2 races in a row.AR3-GP wrote: ↑28 Oct 2024, 02:02I also think 2025 is going to have issues. 2025 is not a time for fundamental architectural changes. Like we saw from 2020 to 2021, it's only a matter of limited evolution because you need to spend more time on the 2026 cars.Paa wrote: ↑28 Oct 2024, 01:35I agree all of these. I even anticipated something like this for the end of the season around summer time.
What is even more worrying that Red Bull don't give any vibes suggesting that they know what is going on and will be able to come back strong for next season. And then the questionable engine comes into picture for 2026.
At this point there is no sign of positive turnaround at the horizont.
Mclaren and Ferrari are the favorites for 2025. They have a great base car to continue developing. They will evolve their cars like RB18-> RB19. Red Bull's original RB18 concept has been obsoleted. They benefitted from having a car which could be developed to its ceiling the quickest. Mclaren and Ferrari have adapted fundamentally different approaches to generating performance and it took them longer, but their ceiling is higher than that of the original Red Bull concept. They don't rely on infinite stiffness and high speed corners to win a GP. It's a huge effort for Red Bull to change course and they can't afford to do all of that while staying on top of 2026 development.
