2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[dialtone]

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/309468/m ... perez.html

I thought sister teams are equal competitors but then Marko says this:

Lawson could partially impress showing off his skills against Perez, however, Marko also underlined that something was indeed missing. "But we know Lawson is a very tough racer. He's very difficult to overtake. But it shouldn't be within, not teammates, but with sister teams. There should be more respect," he concluded about the incident.

[Wouter]

Stewards:

Johnny Herbert, British isn't he?

And Tim Mayer FIA Steward, ORGANISER OF THE FIA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS IN THE USA.

As the son of former McLaren founder Teddy Mayer, Tim Mayer grew up around motorsport ...........

[Wouter]

Last week Russell pushes Bottas off the track while he is behind at the apex, keeps his position, gets a 5 second penalty.

This week Max pushes Lando off the track while he is behind at the apex, loses his position because Lando overtakes on the grass,

gets 10 seconds and 2 p points!!

[Tommy.G]

Max pushes ver the limit in T4, but T8 penalty was total BS. Total joke, to quote one particularly brilliant brain from Mercedes

Okish damage limitation with P6, I had him at P5 before the weekend and losing 15p to Norris tbh. If he wasn't so hot with Norris, would have been -6p, so just 4p more lost is not that bad

That was actually the worse one of the two. Did you see the onboards? He just blasted into the inside and pushed Lando off while going halfway across the country himself too.

Late brake and understeer, was fully ahead of Norris. Lando should have left him room and switch back easily, Max would have looked like a total amateur in that case

What in the world are you defending there mate? T8 was ridiculous!

Was never going to make the corner at that angle, his only purpose being not to let Norris follow Sainz and probably win! He even admitted it in the press later…

What Max did yesterday is beyond just a penalty! There needs to be a whole conversation in the FIA drivers briefing about such tactics of purposefully running the other off track to decide a race result…

[Sergej]

people speaking about 2025 lol as a Max fan I've already written off next year, McLaren/Ferrari are too far ahead while Red Bull still struggle in understanding the car, and this just in the time when they're designing the RB21, so very doubtful it'll be a good car

I just hope he can win this title, which, considering the car, would be one of the great achievement of this sport (hopefully with no more embarrassing manouvres like yesterday), then I will settle for a "purgatory season" next year, waiting for new challenges in 2026 (maybe with another team)

[basti313]

I thought sister teams are equal competitors but then Marko says this:

Well, what else should he say? Of course you should not hit the car, you want to sit in next year.
It was simply the opposite of what is usually said here by some...that the RB is not racing hard against the own team, but only against others...well...strong example that one can overdo it, that was Verstappen on Norris style hard

What Max did yesterday is beyond just a penalty! There needs to be a whole conversation in the FIA drivers briefing about such tactics of purposefully running the other off track to decide a race result…

Yes, we need to come back to clean racing. Everyone behind each other, maybe a clean DRS pass. Not this fighting all the time...every race someone "outbraking" someone...disgusting.

Remember a few races back, there was the thing about Perez's current contract having clauses about minimum points ? What happened to that ? I guess Perez is just in it to the end now. Its rather embarrassing. Ferrari are already ahead in constructors points. There's no way in hell he's coming back next year. That whole 2 year contract was one of the most embarrassing gaffs in Red Bull history.

I do not know, why anyone speaks about contracts, they do not matter! The contract is just a matter of money, they can say every day, "here is your new seat" and point to the armchair next to the car. There is no obligation in any contract to sit in the car.
But the simple issue is, that there is no other driver. They can not get someone middle of the season from another team. There is no Hulkenberg on the market...
So what should they do...bring Seb Vettel back?
They desperately try to check if Lawson can do it. But the only available drivers, Tsunoda, Lawson, Colapinto...I do not see so far a rising star.

[Seanspeed]

Yes, we need to come back to clean racing. Everyone behind each other, maybe a clean DRS pass. Not this fighting all the time...every race someone "outbraking" someone...disgusting.

We can have clean and hard racing at the same time.

Simply barging people off-track is not good racing, and is in fact depriving us of better, more exciting action. When drivers are allowed to go side by side through a corner, they can often carry that battle into the next series of corners, which makes for some of the best racing action possible.

I also dont consider it 'hard' racing, cuz there's nothing 'hard' about it, it doesn't require any great intelligence or skill, just enough desperation and a dash of gambling that your opponent wont crash into you. It's lousy and the FIA needs to put a complete stop to it. No stipulations except perhaps if a car simply has no choice(like at the start and a car is avoiding one car, running another off in the process). There should never be a reason in one on one battling for any car to be able to push another off-track, period.

Verstappen, while hardly the only driver guilty of abusing this, has certainly been the best at highlighting why we need this change. I get he's in a desperation situation, trying to hold off a clearly faster car for the title, but this sort of racing is painful to watch. It's not exciting, it's messy and ugly.

[Jdn1327]

I agree all of these. I even anticipated something like this for the end of the season around summer time.

What is even more worrying that Red Bull don't give any vibes suggesting that they know what is going on and will be able to come back strong for next season. And then the questionable engine comes into picture for 2026.
At this point there is no sign of positive turnaround at the horizont.

I also think 2025 is going to have issues. 2025 is not a time for fundamental architectural changes. Like we saw from 2020 to 2021, it's only a matter of limited evolution because you need to spend more time on the 2026 cars.

Mclaren and Ferrari are the favorites for 2025. They have a great base car to continue developing. They will evolve their cars like RB18-> RB19. Red Bull's original RB18 concept has been obsoleted. They benefitted from having a car which could be developed to its ceiling the quickest. Mclaren and Ferrari have adapted fundamentally different approaches to generating performance and it took them longer, but their ceiling is higher than that of the original Red Bull concept. They don't rely on infinite stiffness and high speed corners to win a GP. It's a huge effort for Red Bull to change course and they can't afford to do all of that while staying on top of 2026 development.

Could the penalties for cfd hours be manifesting itself now?

[avantman]

Marko is claiming max used a very old PU for Mexico GP. The excuses are getting lamer by the race

It might be not just a poor excuse. Perez ran much higher downforce package, he ran their biggest rear wing and the flaps on his front wing were clearly much steeper. But if you compare his and Max overlays from qualifying laps in Q1, they were dead equal on the straights, both in terms of acceleration and top speed. I know of course open DRS in qualifying mitigates some of the difference, but it absolutely cannot explain how two very different drag level produce same performance on the straights. and of course if there wasn't any difference on the straights, there is simply no way that Max would've opted for low downforce.
The dude is making wonders this year. Not only he's fighting with knife between his teeth in the 3rd/4th fastest car, but his car is also the worst of top 4 in terms of reliability and PU performance. DNF in Australia, engine penalty in Spa, another penalty incoming likely in Brazil or Qatar.

I still can't get over the fact red bull opted to take the penalty in Spa. That was just such a poorly thought throw decision. And it turned out to be very costly as well. Was likely their last chance this year to win a grand prix.

[Seanspeed]

Could the penalties for cfd hours be manifesting itself now?

Seems more like they simply have lost direction without Newey. Even if Newey wasn't penning all the designs nowadays, he was still important for his ability to recognize issues and providing a successful development course for solving them. He was also very good at providing direction in terms of setup and how the cars needed to be ran on a given weekend. Both these things Red Bull have struggled with since he left and I cant see that's just some crazy coincidence.

[Watto]

Red bull will decide Thursday is they bring a new engine

[avantman]

Could the penalties for cfd hours be manifesting itself now?

This is the case without a shadow of a doubt. That's also what Red bull were predicting to happen this year themselves. Already in the final part of the last year, they weren't the fastest on two-three circuits. They were not as dominant as Max made them look. What we see now is only natural. Their current deficit to the fastest Mclaren though is ridiculously, unexpectedly massive, largely due to their vast superiority in "bendy technologies", partly due to Red bull own struggles with the upgrades.

[Juzh]

Marko changed a lot over the past year. Before he would downplay everything. Now he pushes copium and excuses to make it seem like Red Bull are not as bad as it seems. The one problem is that this only works on people who don't watch the races. I'm laughing at the suggestion that the PU is the issue here. The Honda doesn't have the degradation that Marko speaks of. That was something Honda is very proud of. If you add this phantom 5kph, Verstappen would have reached 353 km/h top speed in qualy. That's 3 km/h clear of any other car. Not realistic.

Have you got a quote of him? I'd like to know what he said. Thanks

[basti313]

Yes, we need to come back to clean racing. Everyone behind each other, maybe a clean DRS pass. Not this fighting all the time...every race someone "outbraking" someone...disgusting.

We can have clean and hard racing at the same time.

That is like believing in a Star Trek future.

Simply barging people off-track is not good racing, and is in fact depriving us of better, more exciting action. When drivers are allowed to go side by side through a corner, they can often carry that battle into the next series of corners, which makes for some of the best racing action possible.

...There should never be a reason in one on one battling for any car to be able to push another off-track, period.

This is not the reality in F1 for many years now. The last real wheel to wheel battle may have been Vettel vs. Webber with Multi21...
Since 2014 especially the Merc officials strongly worked on the point that crowding your opponent on the exit is 100% acceptable as this was the signature move of Hamilton. Since then it is 100% ok to push on the outside in F1, the other driver needs to yield.

Verstappen, while hardly the only driver guilty of abusing this, has certainly been the best at highlighting why we need this change.

No. There is constant change since 2014 and every year you could see why any crowding at the outside is not good, but they still try to write rules about it. I think the divebombing thing mainly started with Dan...Max was the king on moving.

It's not exciting, it's messy and ugly.

Yes, but it is what it is. Wheel to wheel is an unrealistic thought, if you look at DTM, which had the best wheel to wheel in the last years, it barely goes without touching.

[Vanja #66]

If you add this phantom 5kph, Verstappen would have reached 353 km/h top speed in qualy. That's 3 km/h clear of any other car. Not realistic.

Max has been using significantly smaller RW than Perez whole weekend and almost never had a significant Top Speed advantage. That's literally impossible with identical PU. 5kmh at 348kmh is not super huge and it would explain why Max wasn't quicker than Ferrari when he really should have been. Marko isn't kidding himself and the team with such statements, he's not Toto