2024 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, Oct 25 - 27

[Mchamilton]

Lando would have made the corner and I think it's fairly obvious from the onboards. Would T5 be compromised? Absolutely, but it's actually beneficial to completing the overtake because you get the inside line into that corner and the other driver can't really do anything about it without going off-track around the outside of T5.

This is how it should be done if both players race fairly :

You are comparing the best car of season 2017 with possibly the worst car (dead heat with Sauber), it's not even remotely comparable to this situation mate

As for the T7-T8 debacle, you are fixating on the fact that Max technically completed the overtake while they both were on track. You can't ignore what happened before and after that moment and what happened after is Max completely missing the exit and going off track.

Because of this, by definition, the overtake was not completed and therefore he gained a lasting advantage by going off the track. I don't understand why you don't consider that completely objective reasoning. He couldn't make the move stick without going off-track, you can't just allow that sort of thing to stand.

You literally just ruin the sport. All you have to do is be ahead by the apex and it doesn't matter whether you make the exit or not, the position is yours. If you go by that logic, why not just dive the inside at the nouvelle chicane in Monaco, cut half the corner, but it doesn't matter because you were ahead at the apex.

That's what you're saying. Let's freeze the frame at the apex, check that the overtaking driver is ahead, boom, the overtake is technically done, doesn't matter what happens after.

This just makes no sense. You complete the overtake when you are ahead AND keep it on track.

I'm not fixating just to fixate, that was the only point of my OP mate I'm not ignoring what happened before or after, I've repeated this multiple times. The situation is completely different if one car leaves the track and gains an advantage and if both cars leave. We've had many cases of both situations as precedents previously. With Norris being so early on brakes and completely passed before they left the track, there's no argument to claim he was pushed off. He chose to stick with Max, he released his brakes and rolled on instead of braking as usual and sticking to a slightly wider line

We can agree to disagree, but there is no argument in saying Max pushed Norris off and this is what makes the situation diametrically opposed to a hypothetical one where Norris was pushed off in T8. In conclusion, a completely nonsense penalty and another overcompensation that FIA felt obliged to apply

The T7 one was worse than the T4 one IMO. The T7 made zero effort to actually make the corner, he sent it in hoping to wipe Norris out or force Norris to take evasive action. I'd be asking for a race ban in our club for that ---. These takes are insane. Stick to the technical analysis.

Ah, the old "stick to your own and shut up" approach when you disagree, so modern and civilised, loving it

Lando easily makes t4 if max doesnt push him off, he's even on throttle to drive round the outside, not struggling to keep it under control, not remotely struggling to stay in TL.
And T8 Lando tries twice to turn into the corner before he has to abort otherwise he'd collided with Max missile rear wheel. No driver will ever slow down to an unreasonable speed to stay on the track when being dive-bombed like that, so of course be takes himself off with max to avoid the collision. How anybody can say that's not a slam dunk penalty is just ridiculous.

[Emag]

You are comparing the best car of season 2017 with possibly the worst car (dead heat with Sauber), it's not even remotely comparable to this situation mate

Well, Lewis had damage and a step harder tires. Also, McLaren wasn't that horrible at Mexico for some reason, just that the top speed was shockingly bad and they couldn't overtake or defend.

Still, dynamics of the move are the same. Alonso also pushed Lewis wide, but he did not push him off completely

I'm not fixating just to fixate, that was the only point of my OP mate I'm not ignoring what happened before or after, I've repeated this multiple times. The situation is completely different if one car leaves the track and gains an advantage and if both cars leave. We've had many cases of both situations as precedents previously. With Norris being so early on brakes and completely passed before they left the track, there's no argument to claim he was pushed off. He chose to stick with Max, he released his brakes and rolled on instead of braking as usual and sticking to a slightly wider line

We can agree to disagree, but there is no argument in saying Max pushed Norris off and this is what makes the situation diametrically opposed to a hypothetical one where Norris was pushed off in T8. In conclusion, a completely nonsense penalty and another overcompensation that FIA felt obliged to apply

Yeah I guess at this point I don't think either of us will change their mind, but I'll be honest, I can't agree with your perspective at all. Situations you are referring to usually occur during wheel-to-wheel racing that go-on for a couple of turns. At that point if both drivers go off, there wasn't a lasting advantage because the actual move might have happened a couple of turns ago.

Whereas here, we had an half-assed overtake attempt which Max couldn't complete while staying on-track and he did not give back the position.

Since in Austin they both went off as well, why did Lando get a penalty there, but Max doesn't deserve one?
Maybe 10s was too harsh, but if they hadn't given a penalty at all, that would have been outrageous.

Also, please check onboard from Leclerc and Lando (around 41s and 1.42s) :


Lando did make an attempt to go back to the racing line, but he was unable to due to Max being there. The entire time he was looking towards going there. Do you want him to completely stop just to let Max through so he (Lando) can go back to the racing line and not go off-track? Does that also not warrant a penalty for Max? Not only he did not complete the overtake by staying on-track, he also forced his opponent to lose 3-4 seconds on the process, but no penalty?

[Polite]

VER had slower pace than a Haas. We will see what happens in next races.

If pace continues to be this bad then it was the bib.

You've got it backwards. Supposed bib adjustment allowed for lower ride height during quali and would improve quali performance, something which is still in relatively good shape on the RB20. It should have no relative effect on race pace, which in any case is garbage since a long time before whole bib thing came up.

i think this is wrong: Rbr setups their cars for race pace then with the bib adjuster they can have good quali pace as well..

Now they cant.. so they setup the car for quali pace, and the race pace is gone..

your logic is wrong in my opinion...

[TimW]

VER had slower pace than a Haas. We will see what happens in next races.

If pace continues to be this bad then it was the bib.

You've got it backwards. Supposed bib adjustment allowed for lower ride height during quali and would improve quali performance, something which is still in relatively good shape on the RB20. It should have no relative effect on race pace, which in any case is garbage since a long time before whole bib thing came up.

i think this is wrong: Rbr setups their cars for race pace then with the bib adjuster they can have good quali pace as well..

Now they cant.. so they setup the car for quali pace, and the race pace is gone..

your logic is wrong in my opinion...

It's not. A good quali setup would result in excessive plank wear for a whole race distance. So the bib setup must be for the race, otherwise you get disqualified. The benefit would be for quali if you adjust it.

[Waz]

Are we just overlooking that Verstappen had PU issues the whole Friday and managed a dozen laps in total? Then got an old PU fitted that's right at the end of its usable life.

No real set up time and a heavily detuned engine on its last legs, and people on F1 Technical are resorting to conspiracy theories about why he was slow?

[dialtone]

Are we just overlooking that Verstappen had PU issues the whole Friday and managed a dozen laps in total? Then got an old PU fitted that's right at the end of its usable life.

No real set up time and a heavily detuned engine on its last legs, and people on F1 Technical are resorting to conspiracy theories about why he was slow?

That's the same as Lando and Charles. Charles also had car issues during the race as Vasseur commented on regarding his pace.

[Silent Storm]

Are we just overlooking that Verstappen had PU issues the whole Friday and managed a dozen laps in total? Then got an old PU fitted that's right at the end of its usable life.

No real set up time and a heavily detuned engine on its last legs, and people on F1 Technical are resorting to conspiracy theories about why he was slow?

That's the same as Lando and Charles. Charles also had car issues during the race as Vasseur commented on regarding his pace.

What issue did Lando have? He didn't mention it after the race. Compared to Charles and Max he had a clean weekend.

[organic]

[Vanja #66]

wrong thread

[search]

I haven't read anything during the weekend, but did anyone have the impression that one engine manufacturer still has an advantage over others at high altitude? This year, I didn't really notice any particular changes in the pecking order.

If at all, probably Ferrari?

[Waz]

I haven't read anything during the weekend, but did anyone have the impression that one engine manufacturer still has an advantage over others at high altitude? This year, I didn't really notice any particular changes in the pecking order.

If at all, probably Ferrari?

Ferrari engines were heavily detuned in 2023 for the high altitude. I don't remember the exact issue, but it would have been rectified for this year under genuine reliability upgrades.

That's maybe why you felt the Ferrari was strong this year.