2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[Ben1980]

Anyway, truly the last, enjoy debating/convincing yourselves!

Love a debate!

( it takes my mind off the USA)

[venkyhere]

Interesting debate going on...
If we pool the 4 drivers under discussion - Oscar, Lando, LeClerc and Max, and take their progress from when they first came in, until 2 seasons later, who is the odd man out ?

Oscar, LeClerc, Max - mega risk takers, willing to check what happens if they push from 99% to 100% and don't fear failure. As the years add on, the 'mistakes' become lesser (look at Max) and the ability to hit 99.99% from 99% consistently, keeps getting sharper. But they will go that extra 0.01% if push comes to shove - they all have that "f*** this, I am diving into the inside now, let the other guy avoid the crash" cavalier streak in them. And that's what is truly needed to 'be feared' as a driver. George Russel has it too.

Lando - risk averse. Methodically pushes from 99% to 99.99% but refuses to go that last 0.01%. Fears failure. But a very very reliable driver. Brings the car home. Obedient. Doesn't talk back harshly to the team or puts hit foot down over the team radio. A very 'correct' driver, but not a 'feared' driver.

[daren_p]

I'm interested in what we see with Norris next season, its been said he won't be a WDC because he doesn't have that killer instinct/ruthlessness of Max, as a fan of his I'd say that's probably true, but he does appear to have the desire to want to win a WDC, he seems to have a very good ability to learn & improve from his previous mistakes (especially over the off season). Hoping this year will be a big learning session & we'll see another jump from him next year, time will tell. I'd agree he's made his fair share of mistakes this year but for the most part so have all the other top tier drivers, which many seem to skip over. Hoping the team itself/strategy will also take a jump next year, as they dropped a lot of potential points over the season, very much looking forward to the new RB hire in that department.

[Darth-Piekus]

What is the definition of ruthlessness and killer instinct? Does it translate to battling others but respecting them or is it win at all costs?

[mwillems]

Anyway, truly the last, enjoy debating/convincing yourselves!

Love a debate!

( it takes my mind off the USA)

Ahahaha I try and keep away from the politics for the sake of our Russian and American friends!

[mwillems]

What is the definition of ruthlessness and killer instinct? Does it translate to battling others but respecting them or is it win at all costs?

Looking for the edge of the rules. Hamilton was the king of this, he could get to the edge of the rules but just be inside, by and large. Max is also very good, but is willing to go over it a little more if he thinks it will be a net benefit. I like the way Hamilton did it, but not so much Max as his driving is like his speaking. Blunt. Lewis was more subtle as well as better at staying just inside the rules, so he'd upset rival fans and generally get away with it.

But both are very clever and calculating on track to ensure they get what they want.

[PapayaFan481]

Again with the bickering and driver Top Trumping...

We have 2 great drivers. Neither is the finished article. Either one could be a future WDC in a car competitive enough.

Lando has had some weaknesses this year, but has also been under a lot of pressure thanks to the media and fans who talked about the WDC that was, frankly, only ever a really long shot. I think he lacked decisiveness and was over cautious because he was aware that he couldn't afford a DNF.

People talk Charles up as one of the very best, and rightly so, but he is still making errors when under pressure. Even Max, Lewis and Alonso are not immune from them on occasion.

Lando has been thrown, somewhat unexpectedly, into an overhyped title fight and it is only natural for him to feel the pressure as a result.

Hopefully next season he comes back stronger and we have a car that allows him and Oscar to fight for victory at every race.

Personally I'm hoping next year is a return to the Ferrari vs McLaren years of old!!

[mwillems]

Again with the bickering and driver Top Trumping...

We have 2 great drivers. Neither is the finished article. Either one could be a future WDC in a car competitive enough.

Lando has had some weaknesses this year, but has also been under a lot of pressure thanks to the media and fans who talked about the WDC that was, frankly, only ever a really long shot. I think he lacked decisiveness and was over cautious because he was aware that he couldn't afford a DNF.

People talk Charles up as one of the very best, and rightly so, but he is still making errors when under pressure. Even Max, Lewis and Alonso are not immune from them on occasion.

Lando has been thrown, somewhat unexpectedly, into an overhyped title fight and it is only natural for him to feel the pressure as a result.

Hopefully next season he comes back stronger and we have a car that allows him and Oscar to fight for victory at every race.

Personally I'm hoping next year is a return to the Ferrari vs McLaren years of old!!

Which post was bickering and top trumping? Looked to me like a healthy discussion. Unless you're now also bickering?

I don't think the amount of mistakes is OK or understandable. I think he's underperformed and when that happens there should be accountability. We're here to win and perform at the highest level and he's let results get away from him too often for a driver expected to challenge Max.

I get that it would be difficult for a while but race 21 and he's still making rookie errors.

For me, that's far from understandable, he needs to sort his racing out.

[Darth-Piekus]

Something that I've been informed which may shed some light to the speed of the cars. Without taking out the mistakes that the team and Lando did which are understandable considering its their first time, there is a tech talk video from the official F1 with graphs that basically has Red Bull as the fastest car till Hungary with the score being 14 to Red Bull and 7 to Mclaren with Perez out of the equation since hes below average. With that in mind I would like to wait next year and see what Norris can do with a car that is top from the start.

[organic]

Something that I've been informed which may shed some light to the speed of the cars. Without taking out the mistakes that the team and Lando did which are understandable considering its their first time, there is a tech talk video from the official F1 with graphs that basically has Red Bull as the fastest car till Hungary with the score being 14 to Red Bull and 7 to Mclaren with Perez out of the equation since hes below average. With that in mind I would like to wait next year and see what Norris can do with a car that is top from the start.

Norris hasn't even scored the most points since Miami..

[BMMR61]

Nobody's prepared to say their views earlier to compromise one driver for a tiny chance the other could succeed were misplaced. In the face of that hubris I'll say what I wasn't going to - "I told you!"

Brundle summed it up nicely for me https://racingnews365.com/mclaren-defen ... rd-dilemma

Some people here totally undervalue the psychological factors of racing, when I used to race it was known as "the top two inches". McLaren would have almost certainly lost Piastri if they had been much more heavy handed than what the dopey-media drumbeat was inciting. Yes inciting - Buxton is one of the most sanctimonious gabblers to grace F1 and he speaks as though Stella and company are completely clueless. I'm the first to get tetchy when McLaren miss an obvious tactical ploy like Silverstone but there are always mitigating factors.

McLaren have (Austria excluded) had a 100% finishing record and Oscar has completed every lap, only missing out on points at Miami after being clattered by Sainz who received a penalty for the mistake. This is a level of performance any team should be extremely proud of. I am and this season should benefit them in terms of better knowing how to win races that they aren't dominating.

[Seanspeed]

Hamilton was ruthless when needed but I don't remember him playing outside of the rules or sending others off the track and he won 7 championships. He had a way to make a fool out of Max or other champions. Perhaps that is what Lando needs to do from next year. He doesn't have to play dirty. Just play cleverly.

Lewis absolutely ran others off-track in plenty of cases when it was convenient to. I remember him doing it to Rosberg multiple times, at Bahrain and COTA. This sort of driving, especially from Lewis, simply went unpunished for so long and the best drivers always push everything to the limits of what they think they can get away or what is technically acceptable. Lewis in general had a lot of 'you either acquiesce or we crash' moves and got away with it almost every time cuz others favored self preservation and because Lewis was also good at pulling these hard moves off and not getting clumsy about it on his end.

[PapayaFan481]

Again with the bickering and driver Top Trumping...

We have 2 great drivers. Neither is the finished article. Either one could be a future WDC in a car competitive enough.

Lando has had some weaknesses this year, but has also been under a lot of pressure thanks to the media and fans who talked about the WDC that was, frankly, only ever a really long shot. I think he lacked decisiveness and was over cautious because he was aware that he couldn't afford a DNF.

People talk Charles up as one of the very best, and rightly so, but he is still making errors when under pressure. Even Max, Lewis and Alonso are not immune from them on occasion.

Lando has been thrown, somewhat unexpectedly, into an overhyped title fight and it is only natural for him to feel the pressure as a result.

Hopefully next season he comes back stronger and we have a car that allows him and Oscar to fight for victory at every race.

Personally I'm hoping next year is a return to the Ferrari vs McLaren years of old!!

Which post was bickering and top trumping? Looked to me like a healthy discussion. Unless you're now also bickering?

I don't think the amount of mistakes is OK or understandable. I think he's underperformed and when that happens there should be accountability. We're here to win and perform at the highest level and he's let results get away from him too often for a driver expected to challenge Max.

I get that it would be difficult for a while but race 21 and he's still making rookie errors.

For me, that's far from understandable, he needs to sort his racing out.

You can't see all the posts where Oscar fans are belittling Lando and vice versa?

[venkyhere]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/how- ... /10670452/

Stella says it was not a driving issue, but a brake-lockup issue with front axle.
Why wasn't this problem present during wet qualifying on the same inter tyres, when the car has lesser fuel load and the driver is even more aggressive with the brake pressure ? Norris was P1 by a huge margin, wasn't he ?
Anyone has more info on this ? Curious to know, before I make up mind that Stella is simply protecting his drivers from the media (as a good TP should).

[FittingMechanics]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/how- ... /10670452/

Stella says it was not a driving issue, but a brake-lockup issue with front axle.
Why wasn't this problem present during wet qualifying on the same inter tyres, when the car has lesser fuel load and the driver is even more aggressive with the brake pressure ? Norris was P1 by a huge margin, wasn't he ?
Anyone has more info on this ? Curious to know, before I make up mind that Stella is simply protecting his drivers from the media (as a good TP should).

Piastri did lock up on his final run in Q3 and went off at T1 so looks like there is something to this.

Potentially the car was easy to lock up but if you nailed it just right, it didn't happen. In the race it's hard to really nail it every lap because the conditions changed so much.