2024 Las Vegas Grand Prix - Las Vegas Strip, Nov 21 - 23

[venkyhere]

This post race bit is weird....

I suggest next year, James Corden Carpool Karaoke on the way to the podium....

The most idiotic post race shenanigans I've ever seen. Car ride sitting jammed with sweaty fellow racers to stand in front of a fountain for 1 min interviews. Then car ride back to 'the main area' for the podium and press bytes. They haven't changed it after last year. Someone should tell them that a rolls royce car ride (what was the third car for, who was in it?) and emerging from a hydraulic lift onto a plinth is better suited to cocaine snorting movie/pop/rock stars, who need to 'give an inspiring message to their Vegas fans', not the winners from a race.

[venkyhere]

Winning a title with the car that will finish third in the WCC, bravo Max Verstappen!

Where did the McLaren pace disappear to?

That is impressive but first half of the season, redbull clearly no1 car. Second half mclaren was better car but ferrari and mercedes were best cars at some weekends. Therefore, that helped to Max also

First quarter of a season & last three quarters of a season. It isn't half-half duration, Redbull dominance v McLaren dominance.

[venkyhere]

Picking up on something commented live in the F1TV feed. Looking only at the main race this year:

VER: 8 wins
NOR: 3 wins
PIA: 2 wins
LEC: 2 wins
SAI: 2 wins
RUS: 2 wins
HAM: 2 wins

This is kind of unprececented.
7 winners? Maybe the Pirelli lottery in 2012.
But 7 drivers winning more than once? Has there ever been this many competitive drivers cars ready to snatch a win the day the weater or a SC went their way?

The most glaring stat from this list, is the name that isn't there. Why it's 7 instead of 8 from the four big boy teams.

[venkyhere]

This track looks slam dunk McLaren, especially with their newest high efficiency floor and low track temps (which takes away Ferrari's tyre deg advantage).
AFAIK, McLaren have matched (possibly exceeded) the big advantage Ferrari held in slow turns and low speed exit traction.
McLaren also hold advantage over Ferrari in medium speed and high speed corners.
The only place Redbull (even with Verstappen's one race old engine) might ace over others is T10 and T11 high speed turns, but it will be very marginal and won't contribute anything significant towards laptime.

All this looked validated until FP3. Then McLaren did something with their setup (not just the rear wing) and ruined their car for the race - it struggled for grip on both M and H.

[Juzh]

some top speeds from the race:

alb 369 kmh -> highest since 2016
pia 367 kmh
sai 366 kmh
per 366 kmh
tsu 365 kmh
alo 365 kmh
ham 364 kmh
col 363 kmh

[Starscreamer]

Race was boring but for me somehow exiting and sweaty hands.v Happy Max 4 WC

[bananapeel23]

some top speeds from the race:

alb 369 kmh -> highest since 2016
pia 367 kmh
sai 366 kmh
per 366 kmh
tsu 365 kmh
alo 365 kmh
ham 364 kmh
col 363 kmh

I wonder how fast the Ferraris could've gone with a monster tow. Leclerc was as fast as Hamilton was down the straight with only a slipstream, while Hamilton had DRS.

[hollus]

Picking up on something commented live in the F1TV feed. Looking only at the main race this year:

VER: 8 wins
NOR: 3 wins
PIA: 2 wins
LEC: 3 wins
SAI: 2 wins
RUS: 2 wins
HAM: 2 wins

This is kind of unprececented.
7 winners? Maybe the Pirelli lottery in 2012.
But 7 drivers winning more than once? Has there ever been this many competitive drivers cars ready to snatch a win the day the weater or a SC went their way?

Shouldn't Leclerc be on 3? Monaco, Monza Austin?

Er... yes! Updated.

[Juzh]

some top speeds from the race:

alb 369 kmh -> highest since 2016
pia 367 kmh
sai 366 kmh
per 366 kmh
tsu 365 kmh
alo 365 kmh
ham 364 kmh
col 363 kmh

I wonder how fast the Ferraris could've gone with a monster tow. Leclerc was as fast as Hamilton was down the straight with only a slipstream, while Hamilton had DRS.

Sainz had a pretty big slipstream when he came out in traffic after first stop.

[GrizzleBoy]

Neckerchief having the same amount of wins as Norris is about as diabolical as my auto correct changing Leclerc to neckerchief.

[Seanspeed]

Winning a title with the car that will finish third in the WCC, bravo Max Verstappen!

Where did the McLaren pace disappear to?

On a chassis that scored 100 points in the first races, creating a comfortable gap. There was no fight for the title, just an attempt to catch up. An easy title for him.

The Mclaren has been faster for the large majority of this season. It was clearly the best car this year and they'll likely still get the WCC from it. There was nothing comfortable about Verstappen's gap whatsoever had Norris/Mclaren simply done better. They had every opportunity to catch up and overtake Verstappen, but their own failures along with Verstappen just being amazing all season made the difference in the end.

[venkyhere]

Winning a title with the car that will finish third in the WCC, bravo Max Verstappen!

Where did the McLaren pace disappear to?

On a chassis that scored 100 points in the first races, creating a comfortable gap. There was no fight for the title, just an attempt to catch up. An easy title for him.

The Mclaren has been faster for the large majority of this season. It was clearly the best car this year and they'll likely still get the WCC from it. There was nothing comfortable about Verstappen's gap whatsoever had Norris/Mclaren simply done better. They had every opportunity to catch up and overtake Verstappen, but their own failures along with Verstappen just being amazing all season made the difference in the end.

Post Brazil there was a lot of copium (oh the red flag luck) since the WDC went from 'if' to 'when' ; and now post WDC at the very next race, the copium now is "buffer was built at the first 5 races before McLaren became the fastest car in the 6th race in Miami".

What is being swept under the carpet, is :

a) within first 5 races, there was one DNF for Max.
b) the races that followed after the 'transformative' 6th Miami race, where McLaren was clearly the faster car and kinder to tyres - Imola, Canada, Barcelona, Max won, by the tiniest of margins - strategy skill of the pitwall or driving skill of driver, or both.
c) Redbullring. Austria. The first signs of a 'proper fight' - Max grabbed a P5 with a puncture sacrifice, while Norris suffered terminal damage.
d) Silverstone was a huge opportunity lost with mickey mouse strategy by McLaren. Max had the 3rd/4th fastest car, but still finished P2 (great last stint on H) ahead of Norris.
e) Then came Hungaroring, Spa and Zandvoort - the RB20 was terrible by now compared to the McLaren, and still Max kept picking up P5 P4 and P2

By now, McLaren is the totally dominant machine and Redbull is surely the 3rd/4th fastest car.

f) Now comes Monza and Baku, and Max's car has almost become a midfielder (horrible setup change after FP3 in baku) and yet again Max is squeezing everything out of the car and bagging P6 and P5
g) The big change for Redbull happened in Singapore, for which they ditched their simulators and setup the car using FP1,2,3 data. Though the car was still much inferior to McLaren, it was best of the rest and Max grabbed an important P2, miles behind Norris nevertheless.
h) The RB20 became more predictable and some sort of floor solution was obtained (frankenstein diffuser or not) for COTA, and Max got to the podium in P3. The reason Norris finished behind, despite having a clearly superior car, was because he couldn't pass a much slower Max for almost 10+ laps, being in the DRS. That was a defensive masterclass from Max, and we could see a nervous Norris, afraid to attack.
i) All the fixes from Singapore and COTA didn't prove their worth in the rarefied air of Mexico, and the car was a dud, miles behind the rampaging McLaren. But still Max picked up a patient (or impatient, rather after the penalties) P6.
j) Brazil - we all know, it had less to do with the car, it was all driver. " #cojones "
k) LasVegas - again, Redbull was the 3rd fastest car and Max grabbed the 'par' P5 finish. However, McLaren ruined their car setup and Norris finished behind, at P6

When they say 'it was all because of the buffer built at the start' , look at all those points picked up by Max, from b) through j), That is the reason he is world champion (the only exception is Austria, where Norris came worse off a wheel to wheel battle, suffering more damage than Max. Hence can't blame Norris not picking up points there). . And not just because of those 4 wins from the first five races. And for what it's worth, it wasn't as if Norris was finishing outside the points in those first five races, he finished on the podium twice. So much for the 'it was all from the initial wins' narrative. Max literally drove like a robot (excepting some brain fade moves in Mexico) and consistently grabbed what was possible with the car he had. That's why he won the WDC. Norris, on the other hand, didn't utilize the monster machine he was given by his engineers - whether by volition of his own driving or whether due to mistakes by the pitwall, the 'opportunity with the superior machine' was squandered.

[ENGINE TUNER]

MCL won in Baku didn't they? Did something happen after that race perhaps?

I would think it's unlikely that the mini DRS was worth ~one second a lap, which is more or less what they lost compared to a "normal", Baku like performance. They also significantly messed up the setup this weekend.

The issue is the balance, not the DRS itself. The mini-DRS allowed then to run more wing and keep the car loaded in the corners. Once your balance is gone you start to grain and then you lose more.

Exactly this, more wing when no DRS, less drag at high speed without DRS, bigger Dr's effect when you do use it, more downforce in the corners, less sliding, better tire management, it all compounds upon each advantage, which is why I think the active aero 2026 cars will be faster than they anticipate.

[dialtone]

Max won and deservedly, so I'm not here to question that.

Post Brazil there was a lot of copium (oh the red flag luck) since the WDC went from 'if' to 'when' ; and now post WDC at the very next race, the copium now is "buffer was built at the first 5 races before McLaren became the fastest car in the 6th race in Miami".

I think it's pretty black and white that when your car gets 7 poles in the first 7 races and wins 5 of them... And your team mate was still in the top 5 in each of the first 6 races, it's not really weird to say that the car started dominant and they built a buffer. IMHO that's not where Max really showed what he's made of, that happened from Austria onwards, he was more ruthless and deserving than Lando, who instead showed his lack of preparation losing starts left and right (among the things).

What is being swept under the carpet, is :

[snip]

By now, McLaren is the totally dominant machine and Redbull is surely the 3rd/4th fastest car.

I guess this will never die... MCL is not totally dominant, it's the better car for sure, there were people last year arguing with me that RBR wasn't a dominant car, if that car wasn't dominant then MCL is a midfield car. Saying that RBR is 3rd/4th best car is just objectively false.

4th best car it has never been. 3rd best car it has been in some races like here or Monza, but by and large it has been a good car that even when 3rd best was anyway very close to the top, and when it was the best car it was miles ahead. With a competent driver in the other seat RBR was winning the WCC as well, you all know this as well because you say this in the Red Bull Team thread when Checo comes up.

The racing has gotten very close, saying 3rd/4th best car, or even calling it midfield car as if Max is driving a VCARB or Haas, only accomplishes showing that your arguments don't have a lot of objectivity.

When they say 'it was all because of the buffer built at the start' , look at all those points picked up by Max, from b) through f). That is the reason he is world champion. Not because of those 4 wins from the first five races. And for what it's worth, it wasn't as if Norris was finishing outside the points in those first five races, he finished on the podium twice. So much for the 'it was all from the initial wins' narrative. Max literally drove like a robot (excepting some brain fade moves in Mexico) and consistently grabbed what was possible with the car he had. That's why he won the WDC. Norris, on the other hand, didn't utilize the monster machine he was given by his engineers - whether by volition of his own driving or whether due to mistakes by the pitwall, the 'opportunity with the superior machine' was squandered.

Again, Max had 7 poles in the first 7 races and won 5 of them. Miami was lost because SC picked up the wrong car, Australia lost due to brake issue. That car was an absolutely great car to start the season, even from Miami onwards MCL was maybe a smidge better but took a bit for RBR to ruin their car where MCL was clearly better.

[Mogster]

Max won and deservedly, so I'm not here to question that.

Post Brazil there was a lot of copium (oh the red flag luck) since the WDC went from 'if' to 'when' ; and now post WDC at the very next race, the copium now is "buffer was built at the first 5 races before McLaren became the fastest car in the 6th race in Miami".

I think it's pretty black and white that when your car gets 7 poles in the first 7 races and wins 5 of them... And your team mate was still in the top 5 in each of the first 6 races, it's not really weird to say that the car started dominant and they built a buffer. IMHO that's not where Max really showed what he's made of, that happened from Austria onwards, he was more ruthless and deserving than Lando, who instead showed his lack of preparation losing starts left and right (among the things).

What is being swept under the carpet, is :

[snip]

By now, McLaren is the totally dominant machine and Redbull is surely the 3rd/4th fastest car.

I guess this will never die... MCL is not totally dominant, it's the better car for sure, there were people last year arguing with me that RBR wasn't a dominant car, if that car wasn't dominant then MCL is a midfield car. Saying that RBR is 3rd/4th best car is just objectively false.

4th best car it has never been. 3rd best car it has been in some races like here or Monza, but by and large it has been a good car that even when 3rd best was anyway very close to the top, and when it was the best car it was miles ahead. With a competent driver in the other seat RBR was winning the WCC as well, you all know this as well because you say this in the Red Bull Team thread when Checo comes up.

The racing has gotten very close, saying 3rd/4th best car, or even calling it midfield car as if Max is driving a VCARB or Haas, only accomplishes showing that your arguments don't have a lot of objectivity.

When they say 'it was all because of the buffer built at the start' , look at all those points picked up by Max, from b) through f). That is the reason he is world champion. Not because of those 4 wins from the first five races. And for what it's worth, it wasn't as if Norris was finishing outside the points in those first five races, he finished on the podium twice. So much for the 'it was all from the initial wins' narrative. Max literally drove like a robot (excepting some brain fade moves in Mexico) and consistently grabbed what was possible with the car he had. That's why he won the WDC. Norris, on the other hand, didn't utilize the monster machine he was given by his engineers - whether by volition of his own driving or whether due to mistakes by the pitwall, the 'opportunity with the superior machine' was squandered.

Again, Max had 7 poles in the first 7 races and won 5 of them. Miami was lost because SC picked up the wrong car, Australia lost due to brake issue. That car was an absolutely great car to start the season, even from Miami onwards MCL was maybe a smidge better but took a bit for RBR to ruin their car where MCL was clearly better.

Aye. First 5 races had 3 1-2 and a 1-3 from RBR.