2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Luscion]

Lewis like a pointy car. He lives with instability just fine. The problem is that the stability with this car is not predictable. A unicycle is unstable. A unicycle with spokes that changing length and stiffness with wind direction and temperature changes is also unstable, but not any more so. The problem is the behavior of the unicycle is now abnormal. It's not something you can "adapt" to. Your style is either tolerant of it or not.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -wm-titel/

Pretty much what you said

Hamilton admits that he was at war with these cars from the outset because his driving style is not compatible with them. Braking and turning in at the same time is only possible to a limited extent. If you drive too aggressively, you pay for it. The peculiarity of the Mercedes that it quickly lost downforce at the rear when the front wheels were turned in didn't help either. “I can actually live with oversteer, but not with one that comes out of nowhere.”

[Lasssept]

https://x.com/F1/status/1868320360330068306

[PlatinumZealot]

George is ready to lead the team now. Lewis sensei did well in training and developing him.

[zeroday]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GeseIa3XsAA ... name=large

https://x.com/F1/status/1868320360330068306

Crazy how Lewis utterly destroyed Russell in 2023 and just barely missed out on P2 of the WDC. Geez, what happened. tbf, HAM still beat RUS in total points as teammates, continuing that ongoing record against teammates of his.

Bravo to Russell improving -- he is making less mistakes finally. He still isn't as superior to Lewis in races but he will obviously get better over time. Lewis car still looks crazy unpredictable during his onboards. It seems when the car is predictable he is back to his normal total domination self.

Should be fun to see how Antonelli and Russell get along. Saw some quote that ANT thinks RUS is a d--k, and unsurprisingly loves HAM.

[epo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GeseIa3XsAA ... name=large

https://x.com/F1/status/1868320360330068306

Crazy how Lewis utterly destroyed Russell in 2023 and just barely missed out on P2 of the WDC. Geez, what happened. tbf, HAM still beat RUS in total points as teammates, continuing that ongoing record against teammates of his.

Bravo to Russell improving -- he is making less mistakes finally. He still isn't as superior to Lewis in races but he will obviously get better over time. Lewis car still looks crazy unpredictable during his onboards. It seems when the car is predictable he is back to his normal total domination self.

Should be fun to see how Antonelli and Russell get along. Saw some quote that ANT thinks RUS is a d--k, and unsurprisingly loves HAM.

Nobody get along Russell, can only hope Anton destroys him. Russell is a d—k and Lewis could have easily destroyed him but Max beating him kinda ended him.

[Lasssept]

HAM still beat RUS in total points as teammates, continuing that ongoing record against teammates of his.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

HAM still beat RUS in total points as teammates, continuing that ongoing record against teammates of his.

Russell was the first teammate to beat Hamilton twice. He was also the first teammate to get more poles and wins than Hamilton.

The total points; we all know why Hamilton got a few more than Russell (Belgian win DSQ).

[proteus]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GeseIa3XsAA ... name=large

https://x.com/F1/status/1868320360330068306

Crazy how Lewis utterly destroyed Russell in 2023 and just barely missed out on P2 of the WDC. Geez, what happened. tbf, HAM still beat RUS in total points as teammates, continuing that ongoing record against teammates of his.

Bravo to Russell improving -- he is making less mistakes finally. He still isn't as superior to Lewis in races but he will obviously get better over time. Lewis car still looks crazy unpredictable during his onboards. It seems when the car is predictable he is back to his normal total domination self.

Should be fun to see how Antonelli and Russell get along. Saw some quote that ANT thinks RUS is a d--k, and unsurprisingly loves HAM.

Almost every driver on the grid can achieve a great result with a predictable car. Getting results with a difficult one sets drivers apart.

[ismail1991]

HAM still beat RUS in total points as teammates, continuing that ongoing record against teammates of his.

Russell was the first teammate to beat Hamilton twice. He was also the first teammate to get more poles and wins than Hamilton.

The total points; we all know why Hamilton got a few more than Russell (Belgian win DSQ).

both had DSQs . I dont know who had more during the last 3 seasons. Hamilton last year lastvegas DSQ was similar to Russels DSQ this year

[CMSMJ1]

Please step away from yet another yin yang session..

The forum thanks you

[Jurgen von Diaz]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GeseIa3XsAA ... name=large

https://x.com/F1/status/1868320360330068306

Crazy how Lewis utterly destroyed Russell in 2023 and just barely missed out on P2 of the WDC. Geez, what happened. tbf, HAM still beat RUS in total points as teammates, continuing that ongoing record against teammates of his.

Bravo to Russell improving -- he is making less mistakes finally. He still isn't as superior to Lewis in races but he will obviously get better over time. Lewis car still looks crazy unpredictable during his onboards. It seems when the car is predictable he is back to his normal total domination self.

Should be fun to see how Antonelli and Russell get along. Saw some quote that ANT thinks RUS is a d--k, and unsurprisingly loves HAM.

Almost every driver on the grid can achieve a great result with a predictable car. Getting results with a difficult one sets drivers apart.

That's right. The most dominant dynasty Merc 2014-2020. Those peace of arts went like train in rails. Even Merc's reserve driver could drive that car straight on the way to victory (Sakhir 2020) which is unheard.

[flmkane]

Lewis like a pointy car. He lives with instability just fine. The problem is that the stability with this car is not predictable. A unicycle is unstable. A unicycle with spokes that changing length and stiffness with wind direction and temperature changes is also unstable, but not any more so. The problem is the behavior of the unicycle is now abnormal. It's not something you can "adapt" to. Your style is either tolerant of it or not.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -wm-titel/

Pretty much what you said

Hamilton admits that he was at war with these cars from the outset because his driving style is not compatible with them. Braking and turning in at the same time is only possible to a limited extent. If you drive too aggressively, you pay for it. The peculiarity of the Mercedes that it quickly lost downforce at the rear when the front wheels were turned in didn't help either. “I can actually live with oversteer, but not with one that comes out of nowhere.”

Good Lord, that explains a lot. A racecar should never have unpredictable oversteer while it's trailbraking. No matter how you adjust your driving style, that car is gonna be slower than a balanced car.

I also don't think ALL the post 2022 car exhibit that behavior. Look at Max. He brakes earlier than Lewis, but he's still quite late on the brakes (barring the last ten or so races)

[flmkane]

Crazy how Lewis utterly destroyed Russell in 2023 and just barely missed out on P2 of the WDC. Geez, what happened. tbf, HAM still beat RUS in total points as teammates, continuing that ongoing record against teammates of his.

Bravo to Russell improving -- he is making less mistakes finally. He still isn't as superior to Lewis in races but he will obviously get better over time. Lewis car still looks crazy unpredictable during his onboards. It seems when the car is predictable he is back to his normal total domination self.

Should be fun to see how Antonelli and Russell get along. Saw some quote that ANT thinks RUS is a d--k, and unsurprisingly loves HAM.

Almost every driver on the grid can achieve a great result with a predictable car. Getting results with a difficult one sets drivers apart.

That's right. The most dominant dynasty Merc 2014-2020. Those peace of arts went like train in rails. Even Merc's reserve driver could drive that car straight on the way to victory (Sakhir 2020) which is unheard.

Ok, I gotta add some nuance here.

Difficult car != slow, predictable car != fast.

Forget about loving or hating the driver, if what Lewis described is true then recent Merc cars were usually slow AND unpredictable. If you're disproportionately losing rear downforce on corner entry while trail braking, then that's an engineering problem, there's nothing the driver can do. You're never gonna GAIN on corner entry relative to Red Bull, all you can do is minimize the loss. Then, because the rear is unstable, you're gonna lose on the EXIT as well

As a counter example, Schumacher was great at driving difficult cars that were still very fast, like the B195 (not gonna mention the B194 bc controversy). It was so oversteery that even a veteran like Berger found it difficult. However, that car DID allow Schumacher to brake very deep, trail brake right to the apex and flick it around by TAKING ADVANTAGE of the oversteer, then get on power very early. If the B195 was punishing Michael for trail braking, then he'd have never been able to beat Williams (Hill driving) on mid corner apex speed alone.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Almost every driver on the grid can achieve a great result with a predictable car. Getting results with a difficult one sets drivers apart.

That's right. The most dominant dynasty Merc 2014-2020. Those peace of arts went like train in rails. Even Merc's reserve driver could drive that car straight on the way to victory (Sakhir 2020) which is unheard.

Ok, I gotta add some nuance here.

Difficult car != slow, predictable car != fast.

Forget about loving or hating the driver, if what Lewis described is true then recent Merc cars were usually slow AND unpredictable. If you're disproportionately losing rear downforce on corner entry while trail braking, then that's an engineering problem, there's nothing the driver can do. You're never gonna GAIN on corner entry relative to Red Bull, all you can do is minimize the loss. Then, because the rear is unstable, you're gonna lose on the EXIT as well

As a counter example, Schumacher was great at driving difficult cars that were still very fast, like the B195 (not gonna mention the B194 bc controversy). It was so oversteery that even a veteran like Berger found it difficult. However, that car DID allow Schumacher to brake very deep, trail brake right to the apex and flick it around by TAKING ADVANTAGE of the oversteer, then get on power very early. If the B195 was punishing Michael for trail braking, then he'd have never been able to beat Williams (Hill driving) on mid corner apex speed alone.

Who would like a difficult and slow car, no one. But it is what it is, your driving style is what it is, you just have to deal with the tools you get. At the end of the day, if your teammate is ahead, he has been doing better job. Simple as that.

[flmkane]

That's right. The most dominant dynasty Merc 2014-2020. Those peace of arts went like train in rails. Even Merc's reserve driver could drive that car straight on the way to victory (Sakhir 2020) which is unheard.

Ok, I gotta add some nuance here.

Difficult car != slow, predictable car != fast.

Forget about loving or hating the driver, if what Lewis described is true then recent Merc cars were usually slow AND unpredictable. If you're disproportionately losing rear downforce on corner entry while trail braking, then that's an engineering problem, there's nothing the driver can do. You're never gonna GAIN on corner entry relative to Red Bull, all you can do is minimize the loss. Then, because the rear is unstable, you're gonna lose on the EXIT as well

As a counter example, Schumacher was great at driving difficult cars that were still very fast, like the B195 (not gonna mention the B194 bc controversy). It was so oversteery that even a veteran like Berger found it difficult. However, that car DID allow Schumacher to brake very deep, trail brake right to the apex and flick it around by TAKING ADVANTAGE of the oversteer, then get on power very early. If the B195 was punishing Michael for trail braking, then he'd have never been able to beat Williams (Hill driving) on mid corner apex speed alone.

Who would like a difficult and slow car, no one. But it is what it is, your driving style is what it is, you just have to deal with the tools you get. At the end of the day, if your teammate is ahead, he has been doing better job. Simple as that.

OOOk. Your perspective would be correct for a team like Williams. For Mercedes? If the team isn't fighting for the championship until the last race, then Stuttgart is wasting it's money, regardless of who's driving for it.

Lewis is slowing down? Stuttgart gets rid of him. However, if Lewis is being honest about the cars problems then it's almost irrelevant who's replacing him. The car would still have been slower than Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari, so Stuttgart would feel that it's wasting it's money, because nobody could fight for the championship in the last three mercs.