2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 10:49
Wouter wrote:
21 Dec 2024, 22:50
Well, that is fine by me. why is your tone towards me so coercive and aggressive? At least that is how it comes across to me.
Can I ask you something? Why is your tone towards me so coercive and aggressive? At least that is how it comes across to me.
.
Sorry Wouter... it was not at all meant to be coercive or aggressive.
I really tried to be as neutral as possible. Obviously I failed to hit the tone, as you know English is not my first language :|

Honestly no, I obviously did not ask 90% of the F1 fans. In my opinion: I don't think 90% think Liam is the wrong choice.
I stopped reading social media reactions, it's not good for my mood and mental health :D . For me social media is not a reference any more as there are always groups that have their own agenda. (I mean, what else should a Yuki or Checo fan do than saying Liam is the wrong one.)

Ok, it seems I've missed that Daniel is mad at CH. At least I can't remember certain "Christian vs. Daniel" situations from my side.
.
English is also not my native language and I may have misunderstood it.
In any case, thanks for your answer.
I think Ricciardo was angry because he was supposed to replace Perez after the summer break and that fell through at the
very last moment and now the very inexperienced Liam gets his seat and the way more experienced Yuki is skipped.
Maybe something like that? He most likely assumes that this was Horner's decision, but it was Marko's decision.
The Power of Dreams!

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lio007
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 11:14
.
English is also not my native language and I may have misunderstood it.
In any case, thanks for your answer.
I think Ricciardo was angry because he was supposed to replace Perez after the summer break and that fell through at the
very last moment and now the very inexperienced Liam gets his seat and the way more experienced Yuki is skipped.
Maybe something like that? He most likely assumes that this was Horner's decision, but it was Marko's decision.
Thank you Wouter!

Anyway, I'm excited for the new season ahead, will be an interesting one.
It also will be the last year of preparation for RBPT. I'd really like to be a fly on the wall to get how things are going there.

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Wouter
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 12:12
Wouter wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 11:14
.
English is also not my native language and I may have misunderstood it.
In any case, thanks for your answer.
I think Ricciardo was angry because he was supposed to replace Perez after the summer break and that fell through at the
very last moment and now the very inexperienced Liam gets his seat and the way more experienced Yuki is skipped.
Maybe something like that? He most likely assumes that this was Horner's decision, but it was Marko's decision.
Thank you Wouter!

Anyway, I'm excited for the new season ahead, will be an interesting one.
It also will be the last year of preparation for RBPT.

I'd really like to be a fly on the wall to get how things are going there.
.
:D :lol: Me too!
The Power of Dreams!

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Peter Piper
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Joined: 15 May 2013, 20:01

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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With regards to the Checo/Liam/Yuki/Dan question, as a McLaren fan and therefore not as close a follower as an RB fan, my take is...

1. Ideally Checo would've been close to Max, but this year has been a complete bust for him. Continuity would've been ideal but it's just not possible.
2. Next they wanted Dan but for his age and experience they wanted to see him totally dominate Yuki, which quite clearly didn't happen. Without that his age worked against him.
3. Yuki would've been the next choice but for all his speed I suspect his mentality has been the issue. Max's teammate will be competing at the front of the field against the best driver on the grid. They can't afford for the other driver to be mentally weak in any way whatsoever and unfortunately Yuki's outbursts over the years have worked against him here.
4. Which leaves Liam who has shown that although inexperienced in F1 is pretty much on a par with Yuki speed-wise, and shown better mental robustness. In an ideal world he would've had at least a full season under his belt but I'm presuming that the RB tests he did have shown that he can adapt to the car. I also think his time in DTM has proven to the team that he can perform under pressure (as terrible as the last race was).

So I can understand RBs decision and hope it all works out, but equally I'd love to see Yuki continue in F1 (maybe AM?).

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Wouter
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Analysis
Premium. Christian Horner lijdt gevoelige nederlaag in interne machtsstrijd die maar blijft voortduren


https://www.limburger.nl/sport/auto-mot ... 17248.html

This is the translation of an article published last Tuesday in The Limburger, but it is behind the pay wall.
Hence the whole thing translated by DeepL.
Credits: @Cyril Ratatouille

‘Sergio Pérez announces he is leaving the team’. It was the headline of the press release that Red Bull Racing sent out into the ether around 6pm on Wednesday. Yes, really. According to the report, the Mexican, who had been given a new two-year contract back in June this year, would himself choose to take his pick and tear up his contract after a lousy season.

In an exclusive interview with British Sky later in the evening, team boss Christian Horner explained Pérez's choice. Among other things, Horner explained how great Pérez is and that he has meant an incredible amount to Red Bull Racing. And that he had earned some extra time with his family for that reason. And all with a face of steel. It looked like cabaret...

Based on the hundreds of comments under the video, it is safe to conclude that nobody believes in the team boss's nice talk anymore. That station has been passed by now. It is also crystal clear to them that it is not Pérez's own choice to quit Formula 1, but one made by the team. And rightly so, by the way. The Mexican's performance was downright lousy.
That this particular news item was chosen is the painful compromise of a fierce battle that took place behind the scenes in recent weeks between Red Bull Racing's lawyers and Pérez's. The Mexican initially refused to give up his place because he has a legally valid contract. But when it became clear to him that racing alongside Verstappen in 2025 is no longer an option, he decided to enter the negotiations with two stretched legs.

Initially, Pérez reportedly wanted $100 million. On the one hand to voluntarily renounce his contract, but also for the image damage he had suffered through the whole saga. However paltry he came off in interviews by Horner and top advisor Helmut Marko in the last few months, Pérez and his team also felt pretty quickly that a hundred million dollars was not realistic. A settlement was eventually reached, reportedly somewhere around $15 million.

Not a bad deal from Pérez's point of view. It was rather bizarre earlier in June this year that Checo was offered a new two-year contract by his team boss when things were not going his way. Horner was in dire straits at the time because of allegations of sexually transgressive behaviour and the internal power struggle going on. He could well use a strong ally at the time. By offering Pérez a new fat contract, he at least had the full backing of at least one side of the garage again.

Ironically, it is now Horner who ensures Pérez has to clear the field. Although the Briton could no longer do otherwise as shareholders began to add considerable pressure in the second half of the season. Red Bull Racing's loss of the constructors' championship this year caused a shift in Red Bull's top ranks.
Whereas Horner had previously been supported in all his choices, the vision of top advisor Marko was now chosen.
The latter wanted Liam Lawson in Pérez's place and Isack Hadjar in Racing Bulls vacant seat. The fact that this has now happened
shows that Horner has taken a big hit in the internal power struggle that seems to have no end in sight.
The Power of Dreams!

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ME4ME
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Joined: 19 Dec 2014, 16:37

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Continued witch hunt by Dutch media, throwing CH under the bus. What else is new?

According to previous reports with actual quotes, Helmet Marko was the one who was actually more supportive of Tsunoda. Horner has always been more dismissive of Yuki, hence his gamble on Ricciardo and now the long-shot bet on Lawson.

Anyway, its not my intend to defend Horner. I think he fumbled it big time, and has generally a poor handle on driver hirings and develoment.

On the brighter side, if taken with a grain of salt; "This Is Formula 1" on Facebook reporting that RB21 has passed the crash test.

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organic
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I would agree that Marko was more on Yuki's side than Horner

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I'll just go with the driver that's there to take the next available amount of points to maximise the teams points tally over the weekend.

2 opposition cars vs Max wouldn't work for strategy. We need 2 cars that can play against others, be there to pick up the most amount of points and regularly be on the podium.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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HPD
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Joined: 30 Jun 2016, 16:06

Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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It's not just about Yuki and Perez. I think people and journalists are quite tired of the way Red Bull treats its drivers. Red Bull is 100% free to choose the driver they want, but you can't harm others with your decisions. Both Perez and Yuki had offers from other teams.
Alpine and Haas wanted Yuki and offered extended contracts but Red Bull refused.

Maybe it's best to promote Lawson, he can be controlled and treated as a second driver. With Yuki I doubt very much that will happen, Yuki is much more rebellious and if he had the opportunity to go against Max, he would do it. Yuki wanted to go to Red Bull to challenge Max and fight for the highest position he can. Liam is going to be a slave at the hands of Red Bull. I think this is the real reason for the decision.

f1isgood
f1isgood
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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HPD wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 17:58
It's not just about Yuki and Perez. I think people and journalists are quite tired of the way Red Bull treats its drivers. Red Bull is 100% free to choose the driver they want, but you can't harm others with your decisions. Both Perez and Yuki had offers from other teams.
Alpine and Haas wanted Yuki and offered extended contracts but Red Bull refused.

Maybe it's best to promote Lawson, he can be controlled and treated as a second driver. With Yuki I doubt very much that will happen, Yuki is much more rebellious and if he had the opportunity to go against Max, he would do it. Yuki wanted to go to Red Bull to challenge Max and fight for the highest position he can. Liam is going to be a slave at the hands of Red Bull. I think this is the real reason for the decision.
Drivers can always make their own decisions to have certainty. Both Perez and Yuki decided well knowing that this situation might occur. In Perez's case, if he couldn't realise after scoring 8 points in 8 races finishing the season he needs a reality check.

Tsunoda was continually snubbed and anyone following F1 knew this was coming (maybe drivers are delusional). People don't want to acknowledge that he might afterall not be any better than Lawson in the long term because his only well-established teammate so far was Pierre and he turned out to beat Yuki very very comfortably even if Yuki did improve a lot in 2022 relative to 2021.

If Yuki was going to challenge Max, which basically no teammate of his has done in a very long time, it would likely repeat Perez's downfall except he wouldn't even have a career unlike Perez. Everyone seems to be great except when they have to fight Verstappen.

Gasly was ranked very highly this year and yet he got lapped against Max.

Red Bull need a driver who can support Max right now and win WCC. Liam might not do it but he appears to be less of a risk than Tsunoda for all that matters.

We can always choose to paint the picture using our own colors but that won't distort reality.
Call a spade, a spade.

f1isgood
f1isgood
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 16:32
Continued witch hunt by Dutch media, throwing CH under the bus. What else is new?

According to previous reports with actual quotes, Helmet Marko was the one who was actually more supportive of Tsunoda. Horner has always been more dismissive of Yuki, hence his gamble on Ricciardo and now the long-shot bet on Lawson.

Anyway, its not my intend to defend Horner. I think he fumbled it big time, and has generally a poor handle on driver hirings and develoment.

On the brighter side, if taken with a grain of salt; "This Is Formula 1" on Facebook reporting that RB21 has passed the crash test.
Pretty much. Marko who was always in favor of Yuki now decided to choose Liam like please at least make the story believable lol.
Call a spade, a spade.

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lio007
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ME4ME wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 16:32
On the brighter side, if taken with a grain of salt; "This Is Formula 1" on Facebook reporting that RB21 has passed the crash test.
Does anybody know if teams have to do a crash test even nothing is changed on the chassis compared to the previous season?

the EDGE
the EDGE
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 20:12
ME4ME wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 16:32
On the brighter side, if taken with a grain of salt; "This Is Formula 1" on Facebook reporting that RB21 has passed the crash test.
Does anybody know if teams have to do a crash test even nothing is changed on the chassis compared to the previous season?
If there are no changes to the structural parts of chassis, inc the nose cone, then no, they would not need to re-test for the sake of re-testing

Why would you ask? No team would do that.

It’s quite usual for teams to be completing these types of test at this time of year

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lio007
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Joined: 28 Jan 2013, 23:03
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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the EDGE wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 20:49
lio007 wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 20:12
ME4ME wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 16:32
On the brighter side, if taken with a grain of salt; "This Is Formula 1" on Facebook reporting that RB21 has passed the crash test.
Does anybody know if teams have to do a crash test even nothing is changed on the chassis compared to the previous season?
If there are no changes to the structural parts of chassis, inc the nose cone, then no, they would not need to re-test for the sake of re-testing

Why would you ask? No team would do that.

It’s quite usual for teams to be completing these types of test at this time of year
I was just asking if it's basically possible. In a budget cap-era a team might consider this path, especially with '25 representing the last year of the current regulations.

As a consequence we can assume Red Bull changed their chassis.

the EDGE
the EDGE
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Joined: 13 Feb 2012, 18:31
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Re: 2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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lio007 wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 21:29
the EDGE wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 20:49
lio007 wrote:
22 Dec 2024, 20:12

Does anybody know if teams have to do a crash test even nothing is changed on the chassis compared to the previous season?
If there are no changes to the structural parts of chassis, inc the nose cone, then no, they would not need to re-test for the sake of re-testing

Why would you ask? No team would do that.

It’s quite usual for teams to be completing these types of test at this time of year
I was just asking if it's basically possible. In a budget cap-era a team might consider this path, especially with '25 representing the last year of the current regulations.

As a consequence we can assume Red Bull changed their chassis.
I’m sure RB never would, but know you mention it, there is precedent… I’m pretty sure Renault ran the same chassis for several years before the last regs change, maybe 2019&20

The everyone used 2020 chassis in 21, if my memory serves me