I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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Seanspeed
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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Ken27 wrote:
29 Dec 2024, 21:30
It is about ability, women undoubtedly have a physical disadvantage which is why there will never be a female F1 race winner. Stop this woke nonsense. They should race against each other and that's it
F1 competitiveness is not based on physical strength.

It has some baseline physical requirements, but it's not some super high bar women cant clear. Yuki Tsunoda is not some macho specimen of a man by any means, and he's able to compete. And no F1 driver gains some competitive advantage because they're stronger than some other F1 driver. It's just not how it works.

Suggesting this has anything to do with 'woke' is itself complete nonsense and telling on yourself where you're coming from with your arguments. And it's definitely not one of thought through logic.

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hollus
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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Everyone: politics off. Thanks.
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mclaren111
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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Ken27 wrote:
29 Dec 2024, 21:30
It is about ability, women undoubtedly have a physical disadvantage which is why there will never be a female F1 race winner. Stop this woke nonsense. They should race against each other and that's it

Agreed... Although I would not mind to be proofed wrong...

SharkY
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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Well, the discussion should have started with a definition, which abilities constitute a driver who’s good enough for F1.
IMHO, it’s some mixture of reflexes, repetitive precision, computation (anticipation), computation (situation analysis), physical strength, muscle memory, spatial awareness and maybe some more, minor features. Given that, analysis of the subject, focusing on only one of those features is pointless.

While I’d welcome any woman to the sport, I find it unlikely it’ll ever happen. And I don’t think we can simplify it to: it’s not marketed to them and they’re discouraged or they’re not strong enough. IMHO, the fact that few women enter the sport might be based on the fact, that on average women are less competitive than men. From my anecdotal evidence, most men can be easily encouraged by competition to try-hard and be aggressive, while women generally tend to take a less risky approach. And it might have some biological support, as some studies found progesterone to have a negative impact on competitiveness (like: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 811100151X).
It wouldn’t be a surprise for me, as for thousands of years, men where competing against each other in various dangerous activities, and so their bodies could evolve to respond better to such inputs.

That is not to say, that there are no competitive women (I personally know one that gladly and easily wipes the floor with men in board games), but there just might be a much smaller percentage of them on a male level of competition. And so the pool of girls who’d want to go directly against boys might be small from the beginning.

Hoffman900
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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mclaren111 wrote:
30 Dec 2024, 12:01
Ken27 wrote:
29 Dec 2024, 21:30
It is about ability, women undoubtedly have a physical disadvantage which is why there will never be a female F1 race winner. Stop this woke nonsense. They should race against each other and that's it

Agreed... Although I would not mind to be proofed wrong...
Does anyone think Yuki, Ocon, and the like could win against someone like Ronda Rousey in the octagon? Anyone think George Russell could handle being punched in the face by her? :lol:

I always felt this placed read like it was a bunch of dorky 14yo’s… I feel like this thread is proving me right.

CMSMJ1
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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Hoffman900 wrote:
30 Dec 2024, 19:28
mclaren111 wrote:
30 Dec 2024, 12:01
Ken27 wrote:
29 Dec 2024, 21:30
It is about ability, women undoubtedly have a physical disadvantage which is why there will never be a female F1 race winner. Stop this woke nonsense. They should race against each other and that's it

Agreed... Although I would not mind to be proofed wrong...
Does anyone think Yuki, Ocon, and the like could win against someone like Ronda Rousey in the octagon? Anyone think George Russell could handle being punched in the face by her? :lol:

I always felt this placed read like it was a bunch of dorky 14yo’s… I feel like this thread is proving me right.
Let's not get too personal, but to be totally fair, i think prime Ronda would likely kick the arse off any of the drivers.. you've called that right!

The thread has had plenty of grace so let's be realistic in this. If opportunity and talent were to find themselves aligned, we'd see a woman being successful.

Good looks, not an issue
Strength, not an issue
Opportunity/access/money are the issues.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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A female driver should not be tossed into F1 without the full development that the male drivers get. She must be developed from day 1 as a toddler every step of the way with male drivers right through the ranks into Formula 1.
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aMessageToCharlie
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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CMSMJ1 wrote:
30 Dec 2024, 23:53
Hoffman900 wrote:
30 Dec 2024, 19:28
mclaren111 wrote:
30 Dec 2024, 12:01



Agreed... Although I would not mind to be proofed wrong...
Does anyone think Yuki, Ocon, and the like could win against someone like Ronda Rousey in the octagon? Anyone think George Russell could handle being punched in the face by her? :lol:

I always felt this placed read like it was a bunch of dorky 14yo’s… I feel like this thread is proving me right.
Let's not get too personal, but to be totally fair, i think prime Ronda would likely kick the arse off any of the drivers.. you've called that right!

The thread has had plenty of grace so let's be realistic in this. If opportunity and talent were to find themselves aligned, we'd see a woman being successful.

Good looks, not an issue
Strength, not an issue
Opportunity/access/money are the issues.

That's assuming that performance enhancing drugs would be made legal for F1 drivers though, which in turn would also lift the performance level of the male competitors.

I too would like to see competitive female drivers, but Formula W is a clear signal to anyone who watched it.

Hoffman900
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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aMessageToCharlie wrote:
31 Dec 2024, 08:37
CMSMJ1 wrote:
30 Dec 2024, 23:53
Hoffman900 wrote:
30 Dec 2024, 19:28


Does anyone think Yuki, Ocon, and the like could win against someone like Ronda Rousey in the octagon? Anyone think George Russell could handle being punched in the face by her? :lol:

I always felt this placed read like it was a bunch of dorky 14yo’s… I feel like this thread is proving me right.
Let's not get too personal, but to be totally fair, i think prime Ronda would likely kick the arse off any of the drivers.. you've called that right!

The thread has had plenty of grace so let's be realistic in this. If opportunity and talent were to find themselves aligned, we'd see a woman being successful.

Good looks, not an issue
Strength, not an issue
Opportunity/access/money are the issues.

That's assuming that performance enhancing drugs would be made legal for F1 drivers though, which in turn would also lift the performance level of the male competitors.

I too would like to see competitive female drivers, but Formula W is a clear signal to anyone who watched it.
The only peds that would help F1 drivers is things like adderall which would improve concentration. This has come up in NASCAR before where the drivers are running nose to tail for 3-4hrs (much longer and intense wheel to wheel, than F1).

The fact that F1 drivers have to bulk up with muscle when moving to other series , that females have also competed in, shows you how little physical strength has to do with F1.

While in great shape, this whole “peak athlete” thing is marketing fluff in response to most stick and ball sport fans saying that drivers weren’t real athletes. While I think they are, and they are in great shape, it’s not the deciding factor.
Last edited by Hoffman900 on 01 Jan 2025, 01:57, edited 1 time in total.

CMSMJ1
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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Agree with that ^^

The cars are no longer flat out anyways.. It's the tyres that need to get stronger!
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taperoo2k
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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peanutaxis wrote:
26 Dec 2024, 12:58
Argument:
1. F1 drivers are elite athletes.

As are women in cycling, Tennis and other endurance sports. What matters in F1 is endurance over long distances, and reflexes along with natural speed.
2. No other sport where competitors are described as elite athletes has women [successfully] competing against men.
Women can and do successfully compete against women. Men and women have distinct advantages and disadvantages when it comes to ultra endurance sports. Which is what F1 is utlimately, it's an endurance race.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2024 ... erform-men
Conclusion: A competitive woman in F1 is extremely unlikely.
/Argument
That comes off as pure sexism. What you are not factoring in is raw talent honed into exceptional racing skill. We will see a woman with that so long as they are able to compete on a level playing field with men in the junior categories of Motorsport along the way to F1.
Again I would love a woman to be in F1, but I just can't see how. In order to counter this argument you must counter point 1, point 2, or argue that F1 is somehow an exception to this 'rule'.
It's easy to see how women could compete successfully in F1. The hard part is making it possible, which is down to those who control motorsport aka the FIA and other bodies providing women with the same opportunities as men.

peanutaxis
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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taperoo2k wrote:
03 Jan 2025, 02:30
peanutaxis wrote:
26 Dec 2024, 12:58
Argument:
1. F1 drivers are elite athletes.

As are women in cycling, Tennis and other endurance sports...
wut? This premise is merely establishing that F1 drivers are elite athletes. It does not preclude that females can be elite athletes. The only way to attack this premise to undermine this argument is if you argue that "F1 drivers AREN'T elite athletes". Then you can cast F1 driving into the realm of the likes of tiddlywinks where you can then argue that women have equal abilities.
taperoo2k wrote:
03 Jan 2025, 02:30
Women can and do successfully compete against women....
WUT!?
taperoo2k wrote:
03 Jan 2025, 02:30
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2024 ... erform-men

...Which is what F1 is utlimately, it's an endurance race.
F1 requires large PEAK strength outputs in the legs [braking] and neck [corners], running and swimming do not. F1 is definitely not ultra-endurance.
I would not describe a shooter as an elite "athlete". One could easily be a very successful unfit shooter.
I could concede ultra swimming as the article suggests. But again this is unlike F1 which requires that peak strength that women lack comparatively.
peanutaxis wrote:
26 Dec 2024, 12:58
Conclusion: A competitive woman in F1 is extremely unlikely.
/Argument
That comes off as pure sexism.
If you are determined to think that then there is no point in me trying to convince you. However, as clearly stated in the OP: In order to counter this argument you must counter point 1, point 2, or argue that F1 is somehow an exception to this 'rule'.
Last edited by peanutaxis on 03 Jan 2025, 10:21, edited 2 times in total.

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hollus
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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I guess you don’t quite get to box people into your arbitrary (1) and (2) points unless you answer the equally arbitrary question asked to you: why would you love to see… you know!
Because it doesn’t quite come across as if you really would like to see it.
So why?
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FW17
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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hollus wrote:
27 Dec 2024, 11:51
I would love to see a woman in F1
Care to elaborate why, by the way?
Sounds more like they want to see woman compete against men on a global platform for the entertainment as they feel a woman competing against the best women is not exciting.

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mwillems
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Re: I would love to see a woman in F1 but...

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hollus wrote:
03 Jan 2025, 08:41
I guess you don’t quite get to box people into your arbitrary (1) and (2) points unless you answer the equally arbitrary question asked to you: why would you love to see… you know!
Because it doesn’t quite come across as if you really would like to see it.
So why?
Hollus, you old cynic? Don't tell me you suspect this person has no interest in whether a woman is in F1 but wanted to press their point that they are not capable and to try and avoid any critisism?
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