Ferrari Project 677 Speculation Thread

[Joel709]

I think its true paddock rumours are normally right. The ashton ones where true.. we need the sf25 to have the advantage the rb19 had over tha field 8 tenths lol

I’ve said this earlier in the thread but often with these pre season rumours there’s no smoke without fire - in addition to the AM example, I remember the rumours about the 2012 Ferrari being bad emerged early. The paddock - including the journalists - is a tight knit community that flies round the world together most of the year and people talk. It’s not to be relied on but often there turns out to be a bit of truth in there.

Of course, strict comparisons are hard but I suspect it’s more just vibes on how optimistic the noises coming out of the various teams are.

I think most of the headlines and rumours are just hyped up predictions with no evidence. There’s a lot of noise with Ferrari due to them saying their car will be 95% different. Same way there’s a lot of noise around Red bull about how they’ve solved all the problems of the rb20 for this season coming.

Until it hits the track on anger, nobody will know! We’re approaching the peak of these regs so I expect a very tight bunch at the front, I don’t see anyone being more than 2 tenths faster then the next car, if that.

[Farnborough]

Agree, so many rumour at this point and before there's any real way of those commentators knowing something tangible.

To look at it the other way though, if they've not got reasonable and wide ranging small improvement in many areas, Ferrari that is, then they'll be outside the top three teams for pace come that first race.

There's just so many people across all the teams looking at all the performance and design components from last year that all will inexorably move the performance target further along.

[Seanspeed]

In this video Martin Brundle briefly makes reference to the feeling (the rumour) that Ferrari may have found more over the winter than the others, like McLaren:

Very non specific and insubstantial but often this stuff tends to leak out, so could be a good sign.

He's saying this in order to hype up both Lewis' new team, and also the upcoming championship season. I doubt he's really heard anything substantive.

[f1316]

In this video Martin Brundle briefly makes reference to the feeling (the rumour) that Ferrari may have found more over the winter than the others, like McLaren:

Very non specific and insubstantial but often this stuff tends to leak out, so could be a good sign.

He's saying this in order to hype up both Lewis' new team, and also the upcoming championship season. I doubt he's really heard anything substantive.

Well, this is a speculation thread!

It would be the first time a British journalist ever gave Ferrari any more credit than absolutely necessary, but maybe Hamilton driving the car makes a difference. Anyway, not saying we should count on this being true, just that it’s interesting that these are the rumours.

[sucof]

A bit more interesting then a simple speculation: Haas leader Komatsu recently told reporters they will not change their front suspension.
As they are using Ferrari parts, he later kinda confirmed that there will be a big change there, as he said, they do not want to take the risk and extra time to accommodate any big changes that is not necessary.
This could be the most trustworthy sign of Ferrari going pull rod in the front.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... /10691141/

[bananapeel23]

A bit more interesting then a simple speculation: Haas leader Komatsu recently told reporters they will not change their front suspension.
As they are using Ferrari parts, he later kinda confirmed that there will be a big change there, as he said, they do not want to take the risk and extra time to accommodate any big changes that is not necessary.
This could be the most trustworthy sign of Ferrari going pull rod in the front.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why- ... /10691141/

It was already practically confirmed that they are going pull rod. Ferrari leaks are pretty much always dead on. The technical part of the team leaks like a sieve.

What I do think this confirms is that Ferrari is aiming for very different characteristics. The switch from pull rod to push rod is theoretically just about packaging and airflow and shouldn't impact how the tyre interacts with the track.

What Komatsu said strongly indicates that Ferrari wants a pretty drastic change in car handling and that the 677 will be quite different.

[Farnborough]

Obviously, the Haas team doesn't influence Ferrari primary design consideration. But does offer some view or contrast for us observers.

It looks more like the Haas decision (to me, at least) is based on really getting their floor into a very competitive window later in the 24 season. As the predictions and speculation about "pull" is most in downstream aero influence and potential, looks like they'd not be up for it in committed development of their aero surfaces to that degree within 25 season. Thats entirely reasonable.

For the Ferrari, yes it appears an open information that they are switching, from which I speculated before, they must see clear advance potential in, what is effectively, a long appraisal of their "push" and tracking the aero development of others using pull type front throughout this era of rules.

Its a big year this year, being so close to success in WCC last, then potentially both WC titles this season.

Really stretching out their thinking, design and application needs to be part of this strategy. It doesn't always mean a technical change, but the basis of consideration SHOULD be absolutely flat out to define if benefits are tangible and within grasp.

[F1NAC]

If they plan to build a concept around pull rod in next generations car, then this year is absolutely the time to explore and compare preformances with pull vs push rod. No significant changes in regulations, more time for studying suspensions.

[Farnborough]

I don't see this years car as any longer term "development" concept. Thats specifically acting for something in the future performance space.

This year is better than most (in recent times of Ferrari) to push everything into the two championship races.

No excuses, search everything for advantage, all in the pot, balls out for points in race position.

This, pull vs push, is not a game changer, not big risk, but a small part of chasing everything down.

It's not about 26 season,, its about NOW and pushing every other team to their limits too.

Speculative (naturally as this is the thread for it ) but just seems like a logical evolution for them in taking small advantage, adding this to others in making the whole car. If they don't do this, then they'll be accepting 3rd at best.

In Ferrari hype, this year is extremely moderated, quiet understatement if anything. Sounds really promising for me.

[Vinlarr89]

I expect to see an evolution on last years challenger, not significant changes, but small tweaks in every element that squeeze out that extra 1 and 2%.
The push-pull is probably likely to be one of the more significant elements, however is only likely to yield a small benefit.
Really hope that the car builds on the car from the end of last year and takes the challenge forward

[basti313]

Well, this is a speculation thread!

On the car...

It would be the first time a British journalist ever gave Ferrari any more credit than absolutely necessary, but maybe Hamilton driving the car makes a difference.

That is what he said. I did not hear anything relevant on tech, just hope on Lewis. No idea, where this rumor on tech comes from.

I don't see this years car as any longer term "development" concept. Thats specifically acting for something in the future performance space.

No, not at all. I agree with that. It seems that except for some composite developments nothing is transferable in development form 25 to 26.
So for McLaren and Ferrari as the main contenders end of last year, winning 25 is one of the main targets for sure. So that they not fully go for 26, but had and will have resources in 25 is clear. I expect a race like 21, where we see upgrades on the contenders will mid season.

In Ferrari hype, this year is extremely moderated, quiet understatement if anything. Sounds really promising for me.

Understatement? This nonsense car speculation thread plus the team thread has more posts than all other top team threads together...
Team Lewis has a strange definition of understatement maybe.

[Farnborough]

Yes bast313, I'm deliberately keeping away from driver hullabaloo and sticking to technical aspect

There's no report of wild and wacky "significant " elements that are untested as far as is in public view.

Pull vs push, not a radical departure by any means.

[atanatizante]

But yes, the weight distribution fixes the position of the CoG between the axles (with that small margin from the leeway in the distribution). My bad.

What do you mean CoG is fixed if the axle weight ratio is fixed by rules?
If they are going to increase WB to the maximum allowable length of 3600mm that means CoG and CoP will move to the rear accordingly ...

The fact that HAM demanded to get his sit position rearwards for the W15 and at Ferrari he was asking the same is just a coincidence masked by the fact that Ferrari wanted to increase the WB of the car anyway. This would allow the new car to bring the rear tires up to temperature more easily in qualifying, a similar issue that the W15 had. But the main advantage will be that they would widen the car window operation, obviously with other further small tweaks coz the new car will just be an evolution of the SF-24 with lots of small and useful improvements overall ...

Switching to pull-road front suspension will be done primarily to remove the front tire wake in a manner that doesn't affect the rear tires, especially in qualifying.
But this effect is secondary. The main effect is to increase the cooling capacity, both by removing the front tire wake away from the sidepods inlet and by increasing the sidepods volume due to lengthening the WB of the car.

Now we will have to see what they will opt for: either for a smaller air inlet in the sidepods and therefore a lower drag, or to use PU modes in higher modes than last year.

And speaking of the latter, the question of running PU in a higher mode is always a matter of the compromise they want to make in terms of the cost value. They can easily use 5 or even 6 engines per year instead of the 4 allowed by the regulation and thus they could shorten their lifetime so they could use them in higher PU modes over the races ...

[basti313]

Yes bast313, I'm deliberately keeping away from driver hullabaloo and sticking to technical aspect

Hard for you?

Still surprising amount of technically interested people here in Ferrari threads.

There's no report of wild and wacky "significant " elements that are untested as far as is in public view.

Similar to last years. Earliest the filming day before testing something interesting came out...before...nothing...

Pull vs push, not a radical departure by any means.

Still it is Ferrari. They might also screw up on it.

[f1316]

Well, this is a speculation thread!

On the car...

It would be the first time a British journalist ever gave Ferrari any more credit than absolutely necessary, but maybe Hamilton driving the car makes a difference.

That is what he said. I did not hear anything relevant on tech, just hope on Lewis. No idea, where this rumor on tech comes from.

I’m not sure what you’re objecting to tbh. The conversation came from the fact that Brundle mentioned that Ferrari (ie their *car*) were rumoured to have found more over the winter than their rivals. We can say the pullrod switch isn’t a big deal but it is a bigger concept change than is likely vs McLaren - so it doesn’t seem completely illogical that there’s more low-ish hanging fruit for Ferrari to find (not to mention also the flexi aero they came to later, thinking it would be banned).

No one was speculating about the driver, not sure where that comes from tbh.