2025 McLaren F1 Team

[djos]

When ferrari and McLaren had an advantage last year it was 1 to 2 tenths. But redbul om the first 5 races it was 5 to 7 tenths like in china.. i think lando would up his game ofvhe had a alonso or rusell as teamate so motivate him. Your teamate motivates you if his ight there with you.. oscar is good but not elite norris has the same gap to him he had on daniel

Daniel was a highly paid veteran hence more was expected. Oscar must have pushed a bit otherwise there wouldn't have been team orders fiasco.

Not an opinion I'll agree with, I'm more than happy with Oscars progress so far.

Crunch year now though.

He has no excuses lando got all McLaren poles

He’s a rookie! Last year was his second year in F1, even so he still got his first win in F1 before Lando did. Sure it was only a sprint race, but a win is a win.

He’s also shown conclusively that he’s got the steel to not be pushed around on the first lap. Lando needs to get some of that first lap “mongrel” before he can genuinely challenge for titles.

If both drivers can address their weakness, without losing their strengths, then McLaren has a genuine shot of both titles this year.

[Slahinki]

He’s a rookie! Last year was his second year in F1

So which one is it? Can't be both a rookie and heading into your third season in F1.

Also, literally no one cares about the sprints.

[Emag]

People really seem to have lowered the standards when it comes to judging "future WDC material". Lando had 2 bad races and people were calling for McLaren to focus on Oscar instead, when Oscar hasn't exactly been close to Lando in either race pace or qualifying pace.

He is heading into his 3rd season now. A future WDC should at least be on par with Lando.

As a reference, this is what Leclerc did in his second season in F1 (first with Ferrari) :



He beat his 4x WDC teammate.

[mwillems]

When ferrari and McLaren had an advantage last year it was 1 to 2 tenths. But redbul om the first 5 races it was 5 to 7 tenths like in china.. i think lando would up his game ofvhe had a alonso or rusell as teamate so motivate him. Your teamate motivates you if his ight there with you.. oscar is good but not elite norris has the same gap to him he had on daniel

Daniel was a highly paid veteran hence more was expected. Oscar must have pushed a bit otherwise there wouldn't have been team orders fiasco.

Not an opinion I'll agree with, I'm more than happy with Oscars progress so far.

Crunch year now though.

He has no excuses lando got all McLaren poles

I do think though that this year he has to finish on around the same points as Lando overall. Whether he delivers through a better race or a better Qualy is up to him, as far as I am concerned. Points are given on a Sunday and he's delivered on the Sunday, obviously with a weak few races in the middle and a couple at the very end.

I don't think he needs excuses, I think he did brilliant to be this close after 2 seasons. I won't go any further, we know each of our positions. However, if he doesn't deliver a step up again this year then my opinion will change.

[djos]

He’s a rookie! Last year was his second year in F1

So which one is it? Can't be both a rookie and heading into your third season in F1.

Also, literally no one cares about the sprints.

First two years in F1 are generally considered rookie years.

Sprints are points paying races, so they still count, ask Maclaren if they matter.

https://www.mclaren.com/racing/formula- ... nt-format/

[mwillems]

People really seem to have lowered the standards when it comes to judging "future WDC material". Lando had 2 bad races and people were calling for McLaren to focus on Oscar instead, when Oscar hasn't exactly been close to Lando in either race pace or qualifying pace.

He is heading into his 3rd season now. A future WDC should at least be on par with Lando.

As a reference, this is what Leclerc did in his second season in F1 (first with Ferrari) :

https://i.imgur.com/VDbL7Bo.png

He beat his 4x WDC teammate.

Vettel was gone by that point. Leclerc vs Vettel is not much different to Leclerc vs Sainz today, who Lando nearly matched after 2 seasons, 5 years ago.

And this is why it was always going to start a contentious discussion, Emag.

I respect your opinion, but I think you expect too much after two years. He's no Lewis Hamilton, Max V or Schumacher, but that's the exception, not the rule. No other driver has come and been dominant WDC material after season 2, including Lando and Charles. George Russell maybe had a better start than most, but I don't think he's moved forward as much as he should since.

Plenty of driver changes this year though that will help us gauge where everyone is.

[Emag]

Vettel was gone by that point. Leclerc a few years later is not much different vs Sainz today, who Lando nearly matched after 2 seasons, 5 years ago.

And this is why it was always going to start a contentious discussion, Emag.

I respect your opinion, but I think you expect too much after two years. He's no Lewis Hamilton, Max V or Schumacher, but that's the exception, not the rule. No other driver has come and been dominant WDC material after season 2, including Lando and Charles.

Vettel wasn't gone by that point, he was literally in a title fight a year before. However, his career was ended early by Leclerc. He started as the #1 driver at Ferrari in 2019 and as the season progressed he had nothing on Charles. It was even worse when the car was bad the following year.

And please, let's stay objective. Carlos did really well last year, but saying Leclerc is not much different than him is factually wrong. Especially when you look at the entire period they were teammates. Carlos has never been on the same tier with Charles.

but I think you expect too much after two years.

It is not me who expects too much. If you consider someone to be a future WDC then beating or at least matching your teammate is the bare minimum. First year is always excused, but his gap to Lando did not budge on the second too.

[CMSMJ1]

let's try to avoid a bare naked driver yin-yang please......

[magicsf1]

I think we need to look at this with some perspective. While Piastri hasn't matched Norris in qualifying (particularly with poles), his race pace and Sunday performances have shown genuine promise. Not every future champion dominates immediately - just look at how drivers like Jenson Button and Nico Rosberg developed over time before reaching their peak. https://bookofbonus.fr/blog/tutoriels/j ... atuitement

The comparison to Leclerc's early Ferrari success against Vettel is interesting, but that's more the exception than the rule. Different drivers develop at different rates, and Piastri has shown solid progression through his first two seasons, including achieving his first F1 win (albeit in a sprint) before his more experienced teammate.
The key thing to watch in 2025 will be whether Piastri can close the gap to Norris in qualifying while maintaining his strong race craft. If he can combine these elements, particularly with McLaren's current competitive package, we could see him take that next step forward.

[mwillems]

Vettel was gone by that point. Leclerc a few years later is not much different vs Sainz today, who Lando nearly matched after 2 seasons, 5 years ago.

And this is why it was always going to start a contentious discussion, Emag.

I respect your opinion, but I think you expect too much after two years. He's no Lewis Hamilton, Max V or Schumacher, but that's the exception, not the rule. No other driver has come and been dominant WDC material after season 2, including Lando and Charles.

Vettel wasn't gone by that point, he was literally in a title fight a year before. However, his career was ended early by Leclerc. He started as the #1 driver at Ferrari in 2019 and as the season progressed he had nothing on Charles. It was even worse when the car was bad the following year.

And please, let's stay objective. Carlos did really well last year, but saying Leclerc is not much different than him is factually wrong. Especially when you look at the entire period they were teammates. Carlos has never been on the same tier with Charles.

but I think you expect too much after two years.

It is not me who expects too much. If you consider someone to be a future WDC then beating or at least matching your teammate is the bare minimum. First year is always excused, but his gap to Lando did not budge on the second too.

I typed poorly, I meant not much difference in points in Leclerc vs Sainz and Leclerc vs Vettel.

No doubt he has to match Lando. But you have to consider the quality of his team mate when deciding when. Making arbitrary deadlines doesn't really work. A 6 Year veteran of the Mclaren car and it's traits vs 2 year rookie after a year out and saying by year two be as good as the other potential WDC champion in year 6? That's not objective at all.

He's shown he can exists at that level and deal with the pressure at the front. Better than others in my opinion, If consistency and the average performance continue to rise then I'm very happy.

In any case, Max was 50 points of DR in his second season vs Oscars 70, so applying the same logic and looking at the result explains why your point doesn't stand too well when looked at by others, Appreciate your opinion but hope you understand why I can't see it holding water.

[mwillems]

let's try to avoid a bare naked driver yin-yang please......

I'm wearing pants at my desk today.

[Emag]

Vettel was gone by that point. Leclerc a few years later is not much different vs Sainz today, who Lando nearly matched after 2 seasons, 5 years ago.

And this is why it was always going to start a contentious discussion, Emag.

I respect your opinion, but I think you expect too much after two years. He's no Lewis Hamilton, Max V or Schumacher, but that's the exception, not the rule. No other driver has come and been dominant WDC material after season 2, including Lando and Charles.

Vettel wasn't gone by that point, he was literally in a title fight a year before. However, his career was ended early by Leclerc. He started as the #1 driver at Ferrari in 2019 and as the season progressed he had nothing on Charles. It was even worse when the car was bad the following year.

And please, let's stay objective. Carlos did really well last year, but saying Leclerc is not much different than him is factually wrong. Especially when you look at the entire period they were teammates. Carlos has never been on the same tier with Charles.

but I think you expect too much after two years.

It is not me who expects too much. If you consider someone to be a future WDC then beating or at least matching your teammate is the bare minimum. First year is always excused, but his gap to Lando did not budge on the second too.

I typed poorly, I meant not much difference in points in Leclerc vs Sainz and Leclerc vs Vettel.

No doubt he has to match Lando. But you have to consider the quality of his team mate when deciding when. Making arbitrary deadlines doesn't really work. A 6 Year veteran of the Mclaren car and it's traits vs 2 year rookie after a year out and saying by year two be as good as the other potential WDC champion in year 6? That's not objective at all.

He's shown he can exists at that level and deal with the pressure at the front. Better than others in my opinion, If consistency and the average performance continue to rise then I'm very happy.

In any case, Max was 50 points of DR in his second season vs Oscars 70, so applying the same logic and looking at the result explains why your point doesn't stand too well when looked at by others, Appreciate your opinion but hope you understand why I can't see it holding water.

The whole McLaren trait thing has been overblown because Ricciardo did so poorly. If a driver is good, he is good no matter the car. Sure, some cars might suit better, but you don't drive like Ricciardo was driving just because the car is not to your liking. The guy just fell off.

As for Oscar, he is a tough racer for sure and definitely an improvement over Ricciardo, but I am not convinced he is the "future wdc" people seem to call him. Let's see how he does this season. I expect him to be whitewashed by Lando again, but who knows, I might get surprised.

Also, Max is not in a comparable situation. He joined RedBull on the 5th race of the season in 2016. But even if you discount that, the guy was 18. Mental aspect aside, he literally had room to grow physically as well. You can't compare a child's potential for improvement over a grown adult.

[CMSMJ1]

let's try to avoid a bare naked driver yin-yang please......

I'm wearing pants at my desk today.

[mwillems]

Vettel wasn't gone by that point, he was literally in a title fight a year before. However, his career was ended early by Leclerc. He started as the #1 driver at Ferrari in 2019 and as the season progressed he had nothing on Charles. It was even worse when the car was bad the following year.

And please, let's stay objective. Carlos did really well last year, but saying Leclerc is not much different than him is factually wrong. Especially when you look at the entire period they were teammates. Carlos has never been on the same tier with Charles.





It is not me who expects too much. If you consider someone to be a future WDC then beating or at least matching your teammate is the bare minimum. First year is always excused, but his gap to Lando did not budge on the second too.

I typed poorly, I meant not much difference in points in Leclerc vs Sainz and Leclerc vs Vettel.

No doubt he has to match Lando. But you have to consider the quality of his team mate when deciding when. Making arbitrary deadlines doesn't really work. A 6 Year veteran of the Mclaren car and it's traits vs 2 year rookie after a year out and saying by year two be as good as the other potential WDC champion in year 6? That's not objective at all.

He's shown he can exists at that level and deal with the pressure at the front. Better than others in my opinion, If consistency and the average performance continue to rise then I'm very happy.

In any case, Max was 50 points of DR in his second season vs Oscars 70, so applying the same logic and looking at the result explains why your point doesn't stand too well when looked at by others, Appreciate your opinion but hope you understand why I can't see it holding water.

The whole McLaren trait thing has been overblown because Ricciardo did so poorly. If a driver is good, he is good no matter the car. Sure, some cars might suit better, but you don't drive like Ricciardo was driving just because the car is not to your liking. The guy just fell off.

As for Oscar, he is a tough racer for sure and definitely an improvement over Ricciardo, but I am not convinced he is the "future wdc" people seem to call him. Let's see how he does this season. I expect him to be whitewashed by Lando again, but who knows, I might get surprised.

Also, Max is not in a comparable situation. He joined RedBull on the 5th race of the season in 2016. But even if you discount that, the guy was 18. Mental aspect aside, he literally had room to grow physically as well. You can't compare a child's potential for improvement over a grown adult.

Even in season 3 Max wasn't matching Dan, and got 83% of his points vs Oscar getting 78% of Landos points (vs 43% in 2023). And Max is one of the best drivers to ever grace any motorsport so yeah I think it's fair to say 2 seasons is optimistic, in my opinion.

There are general traits as well as the well discussed traits. Lando was 2 years into a ground effect formula with specific driving requirements when Oscar started, none of the other formulas drive like this, it demanded something new from every driver and he's learning it all on top of everything else.

I expect Lando to finish ahead on points again this year, but I don't expect it to be by much. I don't care if he is generally one position behind Lando in Q, especially if the timing margins were as fine as they were last year. Sunday is they day that counts.

I suppose if I were to set a benchmark then I'd want Oscar to gain at least 90% of Lando's points total this year to set a decent benchmark and continue his progress. If you want to say this guy is ready for a WDC fight then he'll match Lando this year. Obviously that is subject to any silly or lopsided results like one driver being taken out multiple times through no real fault of their own (Max?). But I think he'll be somewhere between.

Time will tell.

[Henri]

Oscar still has weak tire management compared to norris the mcl38 should of had 5 to 8 1 2's