Ferrari SF-25

[venkyhere]

The location of the venturi is mandated (among other things like CoG of the actual car):

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... gulations/

There is some freedom, but the rules are a pretty narrow box.

I thought the 'restrictive' part of the floor was mainly in the x-axis, with some restriction on y ; whilst offering relatively more freedom on the z-axis (large upper limits on the entry height and exit height of the tunnels) , so that teams can achieve the flow volume according to the way they package the engine bottom tray, the gearbox etc.

The whole “sealing the floor” thing was pundits trying to imagine / clouded by the skirts of underfloors past. Indy / Cart allowed tunnels the whole time, and they first started using these vortex generators / strakes and induced leakage to help underbody downforce in the 1990s, most notably with the then very successful Reynards.

Bingo.
right from 2022, 'experts' on F1tv and Sky have been talking of the floor edges and the vortex folds on them providing a 'floor seal' as if they were talking of Colin Chapman's Lotus 78. If you ask Sam Collins even today, he will talk about the floor-seal.

[catent]

in the paddock they are saying the plank wear is a flaw of the car, to be fixed, does it need a new suspension?

bar wear is inevitable for this generation of cars, it is extremely important for them to ride low, I am sure almost all cars wear the bar more than is permissible, FIA just checks randomly, what is wrong

Interesting then that both McLarens and Russel’s Merc have no issues with plank wear although they’ve been checked

No issues ... in the particular races they've been checked.

Do you recall Hamilton at COTA 2023?

I'm not suggesting every car, in every race, exceeds plank wear allowances; I am suggesting that many are close to the margins in their attempt to maximize performance. Other teams and drivers have in fact been disqualified for the same reason throughout this regulation set.

This discussion may be pushing the bounds of what is relevant to an SF-25 technical thread.

[zioture]

Ferrari F1 SF25 Mystery: Is the Rear Suspension or Gearbox the Real Problem?

The latest technical controversy surrounding Ferrari ‘s F1 SF25 has sparked debate among journalists, YouTubers, and analysts, particularly in Italy. The focus? Two possible weak points: the rear suspension and the gearbox.

Ferrari F1 – Is the Rear Suspension Really the Issue?
For years, discussions revolved around Ferrari’s front suspension. Now, with the introduction of the pull-rod system, attention has shifted to the rear suspension. Some suggest that its lack of adequate stiffness is causing performance inconsistencies. However, this claim is questionable because stiffness is a setup variable that can be adjusted by modifying torsion bars. If necessary, new components can be designed and tested relatively easily.

Ferrari F1 – The Gearbox Flexibility Debate
A more controversial theory suggests that Ferrari’s gearbox might lack structural rigidity, leading to unexpected deformations affecting the car’s overall stability. The argument states that Ferrari may have reduced the gearbox’s dimensions to optimize aerodynamics, inadvertently compromising its torsional stiffness.

However, this theory seems highly unlikely. Gearboxes in Formula 1 are designed with extreme precision to ensure minimal flex. Any deformation beyond a few hundredths of a millimeter would severely impact gear meshing and mechanical efficiency, something Ferrari’s engineers would have accounted for in their design process.

Read Article here https://www.newsf1.it/category/f1-news-english/

Ferrari’s F1 SF25 has been at the center of a heated technical debate. Is the rear suspension causing instability, or is the gearbox flexing too much? In this in-depth analysis, we break down the latest theories, separating facts from speculation. Watch the full video in Italian with English subtitles enabled to get the complete picture of Ferrari’s technical challenges!

[dialtone]

Ferrari F1 – Is the Rear Suspension Really the Issue?
For years, discussions revolved around Ferrari’s front suspension. Now, with the introduction of the pull-rod system, attention has shifted to the rear suspension. Some suggest that its lack of adequate stiffness is causing performance inconsistencies. However, this claim is questionable because stiffness is a setup variable that can be adjusted by modifying torsion bars. If necessary, new components can be designed and tested relatively easily.

Ferrari F1 – The Gearbox Flexibility Debate
A more controversial theory suggests that Ferrari’s gearbox might lack structural rigidity, leading to unexpected deformations affecting the car’s overall stability. The argument states that Ferrari may have reduced the gearbox’s dimensions to optimize aerodynamics, inadvertently compromising its torsional stiffness.

Both rejections of the arguments in the video start from the Eng. Romanelli saying that the problem is fundamentally easy to solve either with FEA or that the error would be so big as to not be realistic.

While that's obviously a reasonable explanation, we've seen cars with flapping DRSes, RBR with a broken rear DRS flap in Spain '22, and plenty of cars just breaking down in various absurd ways.

Clearly an error was made somewhere, so arguing from the place that error isn't possible is not exactly helpful, and at the end of the video he just goes to say that the error was a setup error but that seems to be equally refutable by saying that they would have tested it and know what their static height is supposed to be to avoid shaving the plank, they are playing with margins.

[kalinka]

was it in Australia when Lewis was complaining about lost gear sync? I don't think it's a smoking gun, and I don't think it was because of gearbox flexing issues, but they may have some genuine issue with the new gearbox anyway.

[zioture]

Ferrari F1 – Is the Rear Suspension Really the Issue?
For years, discussions revolved around Ferrari’s front suspension. Now, with the introduction of the pull-rod system, attention has shifted to the rear suspension. Some suggest that its lack of adequate stiffness is causing performance inconsistencies. However, this claim is questionable because stiffness is a setup variable that can be adjusted by modifying torsion bars. If necessary, new components can be designed and tested relatively easily.

Ferrari F1 – The Gearbox Flexibility Debate
A more controversial theory suggests that Ferrari’s gearbox might lack structural rigidity, leading to unexpected deformations affecting the car’s overall stability. The argument states that Ferrari may have reduced the gearbox’s dimensions to optimize aerodynamics, inadvertently compromising its torsional stiffness.

Both rejections of the arguments in the video start from the Eng. Romanelli saying that the problem is fundamentally easy to solve either with FEA or that the error would be so big as to not be realistic.

While that's obviously a reasonable explanation, we've seen cars with flapping DRSes, RBR with a broken rear DRS flap in Spain '22, and plenty of cars just breaking down in various absurd ways.

Clearly an error was made somewhere, so arguing from the place that error isn't possible is not exactly helpful, and at the end of the video he just goes to say that the error was a setup error but that seems to be equally refutable by saying that they would have tested it and know what their static height is supposed to be to avoid shaving the plank, they are playing with margins.

You are right in pointing out that even small errors can lead to significant issues, and Engineer Romanelli’s point about using FEA (Finite Element Analysis) to detect these problems is valid, but it doesn’t rule out the possibility of a setup error or misjudgment under specific conditions.

According to Engineer Segalini's analysis, the main issue with the Ferrari SF-25 is that the car is too sensitive to setup changes, especially when compared to cars like the McLaren MCL39, which has shown greater stability. Segalini emphasizes that Ferrari's setup errors, particularly concerning the new regulations and technical choices, have made the car harder to balance. These errors are "unacceptable," as he puts it, meaning the team should have followed the rules more carefully and tested the setup better.

As for the static height and plank issue, it’s important to note that Ferrari’s sensitivity comes partly from the aerodynamic balance and the specific suspension setup. Segalini pointed out that while Ferrari has a good rear setup, the front, with its new pull-rod configuration, could be more flexible and difficult to handle, which can affect overall performance and stability.

So, while setup errors may seem like straightforward issues, it’s clear that Ferrari’s car is at a critical point, where better balance is needed, especially with the new changes. Testing the car’s limits is necessary, but the Ferrari SF-25’s balance remains a delicate issue.

You can read the full article here: https://www.newsf1.it/ferrari-f1-strugg ... o-mclaren/