. And even then still you can’t give conclusions if you’re honest enough because it’s outlier in the sample of few races where the car is clearly not where it should be.
This website is run by some people that are friends with the AR guys. I find them reliable for technical analysis but I'm not sure about their track record for development leaks.Luscion wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025, 17:16Unsure how reliable FUnoAT is but a few from autoracer follow them so figured id post it
https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2025 ... hrain.html
In a few days we'll see the new floor of the Ferrari, in theory. In Maranello they tried to advance the update already for Suzuka, but, according to Fred Vasseur, the timing was too tight and it was better to slow down. Hamilton spoke about this new component ready to debut, but Fred slightly backtracked, because the Red team is still undecided. We'll see. Meanwhile, some technical discussions.
The first update is already decisive for balancing the Italian car. The Suzuka track revealed strengths and weaknesses of the Red car, in an unsatisfying weekend, in which the Italian team was forced to limit the damage, getting the maximum possible from the single-seater. What the SF-25 lacks we have highlighted several times. A car that carries with it a suspension philosophy very different from Red Bull and McLaren, with which they have to build a different setup.
The engineers are far from a complete understanding of the car, as the team itself declared during the Japanese weekend, confirming the doubts we had expressed this winter. The cars of this generation are extremely complicated, with systems highly sensitive to various parameters. Maranello's risk was precisely that of not understanding the car from the start, and unfortunately that is exactly what is happening."In addition to various understanding problems, balance and pure performance are lacking, in the end. This aspect severely limits the potential related to the car's setup. By now everyone is aware of the chronic understeer of the SF-25, which we've been highlighting since the second day of testing in Bahrain. Although there are various limitations at the rear and in downforce generation, the Red car is dealing more with a lack of rotation. An effect that transforms into oversteer only in the exit phases. This aspect needed to be clarified once again. With the second version of the car floor that they will bring to the track, the team wants to solve this puzzle with a different management of fluid mass. This component should debut in Sakhir, tasked at the same time with covering the natural development already planned during the winter.
The updated aerodynamic map
From a purely technical point of view, we should observe further variations on the keel geometry, whose design is strictly linked to the flow stability beneath the car. We have already indicated how Ferrari uses less complex geometries compared to direct competitors, also due to the use of suspension kinematics that show a lower steepness at the base. The characteristics of the new floor, according to information gathered by our editorial team, the historic Italian team has improved the generation of vertical thrust with the new floor, corresponding to the ride heights they can currently use. In this way, the macro component in question will become "more usable." Other teams also cannot lower beyond a certain threshold. Vasseur himself hinted at this.
I believe the DF numbers are correct, the issue is they can't setup the car in a way that gets these numbers consistently due to limitations (as of right now, they can't stabilize the aero platform to prevent excessive plank wear). The new floor is *supposed to* give a larger operating windowScuderiaLeo wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025, 17:46This website is run by some people that are friends with the AR guys. I find them reliable for technical analysis but I'm not sure about their track record for development leaks.Luscion wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025, 17:16Unsure how reliable FUnoAT is but a few from autoracer follow them so figured id post it
https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2025 ... hrain.html
In a few days we'll see the new floor of the Ferrari, in theory. In Maranello they tried to advance the update already for Suzuka, but, according to Fred Vasseur, the timing was too tight and it was better to slow down. Hamilton spoke about this new component ready to debut, but Fred slightly backtracked, because the Red team is still undecided. We'll see. Meanwhile, some technical discussions.
The first update is already decisive for balancing the Italian car. The Suzuka track revealed strengths and weaknesses of the Red car, in an unsatisfying weekend, in which the Italian team was forced to limit the damage, getting the maximum possible from the single-seater. What the SF-25 lacks we have highlighted several times. A car that carries with it a suspension philosophy very different from Red Bull and McLaren, with which they have to build a different setup.
The engineers are far from a complete understanding of the car, as the team itself declared during the Japanese weekend, confirming the doubts we had expressed this winter. The cars of this generation are extremely complicated, with systems highly sensitive to various parameters. Maranello's risk was precisely that of not understanding the car from the start, and unfortunately that is exactly what is happening."In addition to various understanding problems, balance and pure performance are lacking, in the end. This aspect severely limits the potential related to the car's setup. By now everyone is aware of the chronic understeer of the SF-25, which we've been highlighting since the second day of testing in Bahrain. Although there are various limitations at the rear and in downforce generation, the Red car is dealing more with a lack of rotation. An effect that transforms into oversteer only in the exit phases. This aspect needed to be clarified once again. With the second version of the car floor that they will bring to the track, the team wants to solve this puzzle with a different management of fluid mass. This component should debut in Sakhir, tasked at the same time with covering the natural development already planned during the winter.
The updated aerodynamic map
From a purely technical point of view, we should observe further variations on the keel geometry, whose design is strictly linked to the flow stability beneath the car. We have already indicated how Ferrari uses less complex geometries compared to direct competitors, also due to the use of suspension kinematics that show a lower steepness at the base. The characteristics of the new floor, according to information gathered by our editorial team, the historic Italian team has improved the generation of vertical thrust with the new floor, corresponding to the ride heights they can currently use. In this way, the macro component in question will become "more usable." Other teams also cannot lower beyond a certain threshold. Vasseur himself hinted at this.
It's weird that both drivers said clearly there would be a new floor in Bahrain, but then Vasseur said it's not decided yet. This means either the drivers had the wrong information or Vasseur changed his mind about bringing the new floor between when the drivers last spoke about this, and when he got interviewed?
I also don't understand the Autoracer article saying the package will bring the SF-25 more in line with what was seen in simulations over the winter. Didn't the team state during both preseason testing and Australia that the car's behavior matched what they saw in the simulator?
I'm not saying Vasseur was lying or anything, but it seems there's been some miscommunication. Or these outlets are wrong, but I don't think Duchessa would personally publish an article with uncertain info.
They are already 75 points behind. They need to secure a boatload of 1-2 finishes in order to have a shot at the WCC.jambuka wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025, 19:26Chill guys, the season is long. From Suzuka, it is evident the team has started understanding and extracting more from the Car. I believe once they fully understand it, SF-25 will be the best car out there. Both Lewis and Charles are extremely good and once they are on top the issues can consistently haul good amount of points every weekend. The cc is still on imo.
There is genuinely no reason to believe this outside wishful thinking.
If i had to guess Fred meant the first upgrades were about balancing the car more so than just raw performance and nothing else? either way he gave a very confusing interview, the drivers said a new floor was coming and today autoracer is saying it again, a completely new floor in bahrain among other changesScuderiaLeo wrote: ↑07 Apr 2025, 17:46
It's weird that both drivers said clearly there would be a new floor in Bahrain, but then Vasseur said it's not decided yet. This means either the drivers had the wrong information or Vasseur changed his mind about bringing the new floor between when the drivers last spoke about this, and when he got interviewed?
I also don't understand the Autoracer article saying the package will bring the SF-25 more in line with what was seen in simulations over the winter. Didn't the team state during both preseason testing and Australia that the car's behavior matched what they saw in the simulator?
I'm not saying Vasseur was lying or anything, but it seems there's been some miscommunication. Or these outlets are wrong, but I don't think Duchessa would personally publish an article with uncertain info.
However, given the state of things, the car needed a redistribution of downforce, so that the modifications can make the car more 'predictable'. Overall changes implemented by adjusting venturi channels and diffuser, updated in their entirety. A true macro-upgrade** purely aimed at performance and stability of peak downforce, studied in the wind tunnel during winter and approved at the beginning of the season. It is evident that the balance problems of the SF-25, caused by a rear end that always struggles to follow a front end - which by design choice is very pointed - may not be completely resolved in Bahrain. With these F1 cars, we have often seen how an aerodynamic package can deliver less than the factory data suggested, but there have been cases where a package has also outperformed expectations. There is nevertheless confidence that the SF-25 platform should partially benefit from the new parts in order to achieve greater balance and allow for more consistent downforce. On this aspect, cautious optimism is emerging from Maranello.
Not just a revised floor in Bahrain, Ferrari updates focus on the rear end and it's no coincidence.
The "shopping list" for Sakhir should see an SF-25 equipped (also) with "peripheral" modifications in addition to what will be the macro-update to the floor. Therefore, a fairly 'complete' package to concentrate a first step in view of further technical improvements already in development. The action plan for the weekend is being decided, where it would seem reasonable to expect Lewis Hamilton to immediately try the new parts on the SF-25, while rookie Dino Beganovic, who will replace Leclerc in FP1, should complete his runs with the SF-25 fitted with the old floor, for a direct comparison. **Other updates will all be concentrated on the rear area, **with modifications to the rear wing central pillar and a new brake duct.
The last two are usually just little details, but the floor is really significant if it is as explained. It sounds like they were planning to bring this before they knew about the issues, which means they were planning to bring relatively significant diffuser changes by round 4 already.ScuderiaLeo wrote: ↑08 Apr 2025, 13:47As far as I understand the article, these are the components of the package:
That's more substantial than I was expecting if true.
- Floor, including diffuser area
- Rear wing central pillar
- Rear brake duct
Also, from Giuliana:
Suzuka was the GP of awareness: the SF-25 “limited” by the heights – talking about 3 mm of additional height. With this Ferrari lost on average 3-4 tenths to McLaren in just one winter. The set-up makes the SF-25 lose about 20pnt.
It was never Ferrari’s plan to bring new parts to Suzuka, the plan was always to introduce new parts to the R04 that were in the wind tunnel in February (before seeing track car’s problems).
A bigger package that Tondi's aerodynamics department is working on has not yet been officially decided when it might debut.
Info clearly tells us that the development of the SF-25 remains a priority at least until next month.
so because of ride Hight issue they lost 3 to 4 tenths in winter? I dint get that part.ScuderiaLeo wrote: ↑08 Apr 2025, 13:47As far as I understand the article, these are the components of the package:
That's more substantial than I was expecting if true.
- Floor, including diffuser area
- Rear wing central pillar
- Rear brake duct
Also, from Giuliana:
Suzuka was the GP of awareness: the SF-25 “limited” by the heights – talking about 3 mm of additional height. With this Ferrari lost on average 3-4 tenths to McLaren in just one winter. The set-up makes the SF-25 lose about 20pnt.
It was never Ferrari’s plan to bring new parts to Suzuka, the plan was always to introduce new parts to the R04 that were in the wind tunnel in February (before seeing track car’s problems).
A bigger package that Tondi's aerodynamics department is working on has not yet been officially decided when it might debut.
Info clearly tells us that the development of the SF-25 remains a priority at least until next month.
