Mercedes GP MGP W01

[horse]

Here you can clearly see it's a quick and dirty solution:
http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/bild ... 729&sort=1

Ah, that's more like the Brawn I know and love. Lovely bit of sticky tape, sought that out nicely gov'nor.

[Timstr]

The car looks a bit front heavy compared to other cars:http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gall ... 052wri.jpg

As short front end puts relatively more weight over the front axle,
could it be that they misjudged the required fundamental weight distribution of the car?

This would be in line with the reported understeery nature of the car and RB's comment about making changes to the weight distribution for Jerez.

Looks like my observation may not be wide off the mark.

The suspicion doing the rounds is that Mercedes has miscalculated the weight distribution slightly, with the weight too far forward. They are working to solve this with new suspension solutions.

From: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com

[Raptor22]

good observation but not entirely sure how a car can look front heavy when the balast and weight distribution is unknown.

track temps are also not near what they will be in the spring and summer so not really sure how relevant this may be to the current state of design evolution.

[kalyangoparaju]

Well looking at all times and new cars performing for the first time, it's getting really hard to predict who's going to be the best of lot this year.

But one thing which i noticed was that Mercedes which was touted to be the front runner this year riding high on the success of last year and also with Schumi adding to it's gradieur.. was not that great relative to it's competitors. I am not sure if there is some specific reason behind this like may be testing out new stuff or some other packages but it doesnt seem to be like helping..

I somehow feel it's not upto the mark even when it is running it's best setting..

I want to see how many of you guys agree to this point..

[Timstr]

I just look at how close the driver sits to the front wheel center line, within a given wheel base. The Mercedes has a bit of a 'cab forward' design.

[Confused_Andy]

Hmmm, could be a dull season for them if thats the case.

I think Brawn's team were to adiment on following the RB nose ridges that they implemented it in their own way not really thinking about the outcome effect it may have, they were perhaps blind-sighted that they could channel air up the nose and nothing else was thought about.

This team is still the BAR/Honda team who haven't really done any good cars for a long time (except BGP001) so maybe they were hitting too high above their own heads, wanting to push something that was revolutionary out for the hell of it.

[marcush.]

the merc is one of the shortest cars in the field ,so if their front weight bias is too much they still have scope to rectify this ...but not in a hurry ...with new wishbones and a redesigned nose they could if that was the story after all get their balance sorted ....with all the implications of modified flow fields when doing that...nothing we will see at the opening round though.
But then they seemed to be ok on their longrun speed ,clearly indicating weight distribution is not their issue.

I feel this is typical wintertesting scenario coming back as it was in the 90s basically you had no idea what was going on ,some teams quick by running lowest fuellevels or even underweight to attract sponsorship others just going thru their programm ,confident and never ever doing a qualylike attempt.
to me Schumacher is the sole guy gutsy enough to not show his cards now playing down prospects when you can only hurt yourself boasting about.

on the other hand I remember that last year Button especially was in deed very selfassured and almost arrogant at times in the first half of the season when it came to speaking abot the advantages of their package ,and it let to both RB and MCL leapfrogging them after tremendous efforts to bridge the gap.Had they not shocked everyone with their outright speed ,I bet it would have delayed the development of DD one or two months...sometimes it is better not to show all your cards...

[toshinden]

I love the nose , they still running on 2009 front wing and diffuser right? I think they still trying to optimized the based design of the car, if till bahrain's FP they still use those front wing and diffuser then this season might no go their way. But I believe that Ross can do something about it.

[WhiteBlue]

...if till bahrain's FP they still use those front wing and diffuser then this season might no go their way. But I believe that Ross can do something about it.

Agree

[F1_eng]

Confused_Andy, how can you say that Mercedes GP haven't done any good cars in a long time? Only the one that won the world championship last year, it would have been even more convincingly if it weren't for the drivers making a hash of it.

The nose design is not about chaneling air down the nose, in-fact its nothing to do with the top surface at all. I'm sure someone on here must have worked-out the philosophy behind the design?

[Lightspeed]

From the Michael Schumacher official website:

"We had a good day today I must say. At the morning there was a small issue but at that time we anyway wanted to wait until the track was dry. Afterwards we were able to use our time very effectively and completed everything that we wanted. At the moment, every kilometer helps to increase our understanding of the car.

It's very tough still to understand the order of the teams just yet as everyone can play so much with the fuel loads and even the weight distribution.

To me, it looks as if the expected four teams - us, Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull - are upfront, but also Sauber seems to be good so far.

At the end of this week's programme we can say the car looks good. But then, as usual at this period prior to the season there is still a lot to happen. Only at the start of the season we will probably know more in the end."

http://www.michael-schumacher.de/?page= ... 96&lang=uk

[ringo]

Confused_Andy, how can you say that Mercedes GP haven't done any good cars in a long time? Only the one that won the world championship last year, it would have been even more convincingly if it weren't for the drivers making a hash of it.

The nose design is not about chaneling air down the nose, in-fact its nothing to do with the top surface at all. I'm sure someone on here must have worked-out the philosophy behind the design?

Looking at it, i would deduce it was an effort to increase front grip, by having that surface slanted against the flow. I'd say it has nothing to do with channeling air. It's basically a turning vane, where changing the momentum of the air results in a reaction force on the nose, which happens to be in the vicinity of the the front wing and wheels.
They may be looking for additional front end grip with those narrower tyres.



The only problem i have with the design is the underside, they should not have followed the contour of the upper surface. I would make it more like Newey's design and keep the underside as straight as possible. Mercs underside only acts to expand the air and increase pressure under the car, which is not desirable.

Newey style:

[F1_eng]

No, remember that region has a huge upwash from the front wing. and your theory doesn't stand up in many ways. some of the approach might be true for flow in a pipe but not an open domain. there is major interaction with the splitter and keel area which is different on each car.
mclaren have a device that creates a similar effect but they also have a higher nose. i have been investigating this type of nose design on and off for the past year or so. i wont say for who, perhaps i did the mercedes nose?

[ringo]

The up wash from the front wing is a distance to the left and right of the underside of the nose.
No I am not referring to a pipe here.

Where is it exactly that you see the problem? The bottom side?

I am guessing the splitter interaction that you are referring to is to have a earlier transition to higher pressure to sit on top the splitter downstream of the nose. I am aware of the interaction in a sense, but i don't really know how the compromise is balanced.
The Merc. engineers obviously know a hell lot more than me.
But the RB6, F10, and STR, engineers seem to have chosen to run with the straighter under surface.
You may have a point about the wing, but the up-wash is stronger on the outer areas of the wing, a fair distance from the nose.
I would think redbull's design is more logical.

I will run a CFD and try a little comparison, but i wont enjoy trying to model this ugly nose.I am not a pro, just practice in my spare time. The meshing will be simple to reduce time.
Just gimme a couple minutes (or 2 hours), I am going to do a little sim.

[ringo]

No, remember that region has a huge upwash from the front wing. and your theory doesn't stand up in many ways. some of the approach might be true for flow in a pipe but not an open domain. there is major interaction with the splitter and keel area which is different on each car.
mclaren have a device that creates a similar effect but they also have a higher nose. i have been investigating this type of nose design on and off for the past year or so. i wont say for who, perhaps i did the mercedes nose?

The mclaren device looks like it work much differently to me. What it does is it put the same effect of the top of the Merc. nose but much lower. I don't think is is doing what the lower surface of the Merc. nose is doing.
Correct me if i am wrong though, because you seem to actually have professional experience with this. A few simple diagrams would enlighten me.