Ferrari F10

[myurr]

These aren't innovative in the sense of a worthwhile invention of new technology, merely innovative in their interpretation of rules and agreements.

And DDD's were innovative in the sense of a worthwhile invention of new technology?

I think they too were merely innovative in their interpretation of rules and agreements.

You got to give them credit for thinking out of the box though...
1) They could still be called wheel covers, but technically they dont fall into the same category as the last years ones which are banned.
2) They is a much reduced risk of accidents like Alonso's mishap last year as these are infact welded on. (Last years covers were mainly banned on safety grounds if i am not mistaken)
3)They are definitely not movable aero devices. They aid cooling, and not downforce generation.

Don't expect you to check back, but I was actually one of those who spoke out against the DDD's as I believe they hindered overtaking last year and made a mockery of the rules.

1) They're not banned, there is a FOTA gentleman's agreement that the teams will not use them. Thus if Ferrari are going down this route, the other teams may as well just install their old wheel covers.

2) Probably true, but I personally feel this is irrelevant to the overall argument.

3) They are an aero device, they rotate with the wheels which even the wheel covers didn't do (hence everyone saying they were just about okay), and they allow Ferrari to run smaller brake ducts which reduces drag which means they can either have a higher top speed or run slightly more wing for more down force. Even if they're only worth 0.1s per lap that could make all the difference with what looks like such a tight field.

[ISLAMATRON]

#2 is not true, the main reasons given or the FOTA ban on wheel covers was 1) to clean up the wake behind(and to the side) of the cars to help improve overtaking and 2) cost cutting... safety was rarely ever mentioned even though it has been clear that since their introduction these things have been the greatest safety hazard the sport has had, even greater than KERS. Thankfully they have been banned before 1 flies off and take off the head of a driver/marshall/spectator.


hmmm Ferrari cheating again... imagine that... and their fans justifying it? will wonders never cease.

[imightbewrong]

#2 is not true, the main reasons given or the FOTA ban on wheel covers was 1) to clean up the wake behind(and to the side) of the cars to help improve overtaking and 2) cost cutting... safety was rarely ever mentioned even though it has been clear that since their introduction these things have been the greatest safety hazard the sport has had, even greater than KERS. Thankfully they have been banned before 1 flies off and take off the head of a driver/marshall/spectator.

Can you link me to the FOTA statements on that?

[ISLAMATRON]

a little something here...
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules ... ions/8692/

but I swear... FOTA is like the US gov't, they put out a press release and then it is impossible to find again after a short period of time.

it is out there if you look

[imightbewrong]

a little something here...
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules ... ions/8692/

but I swear... FOTA is like the US gov't, they put out a press release and then it is impossible to find again after a short period of time.

it is out there if you look

haha, I know. I also had trouble finding any official statement. Oh well, I just think we should cool down on the blame-game until we know a bit more..

[Poleman]

Two sides of the same coin.Some articles say FIA bannded the wheel covers and some other that Teams agreed to ban them.Links below.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/10910082232 ... 10--report
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/fia-t ... 11788.html

[ISLAMATRON]

a little something here...
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules ... ions/8692/

but I swear... FOTA is like the US gov't, they put out a press release and then it is impossible to find again after a short period of time.

it is out there if you look

haha, I know. I also had trouble finding any official statement. Oh well, I just think we should cool down on the blame-game until we know a bit more..

MAybe start here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7498

[bonjon1979]

The rules that govern the wheels were posted earlier in the thread which seems to outlaw them so I'm not certain what the FOTA agreement is or if it matters. The truth is that I can't imagine that they're particularly difficult to copy if they are made legal. I guess that Ferrari was keeping them under wraps because if they were using them at the first test then teams would be able to manufacture their own solution before barcelona. As it is teams will be able to get something together by FP 1 in Bahrain but I wouldn't be surprised if a) they were banned, b) other teams already have similar solutions that they plan to unveil in barcelona. I think people are blowing this a bit of out of proportion, it's a bit of a storm in a teacup...

[gibells]

lol. A 1989 BMW M5 (E34). It amazes me the technological leaps we take...

[horse]

What's up with 5 and 6? Do you take off the BMW badge to find another BMW badge???

[timbo]

I think only non-rotating wheel covers were banned. It is perfectly logical, as if wheel cover is always attached and does not create safety problems (any more than wheel itself -- you've all seen wheels collapsing on Macca).
How you gonna ban rotating ones? One can always argue they are integral part of the wheel.

[myurr]

I think only non-rotating wheel covers were banned. It is perfectly logical, as if wheel cover is always attached and does not create safety problems (any more than wheel itself -- you've all seen wheels collapsing on Macca).
How you gonna ban rotating ones? One can always argue they are integral part of the wheel.

Movable aero. They're not integral and it's easy to prove as Ferrari ran the wheels for several weeks without the ducts.

The original wheel covers were only allowed because they were argued to be part of the brake duct, which is clearly not the case here.

[bonjon1979]

I think only non-rotating wheel covers were banned. It is perfectly logical, as if wheel cover is always attached and does not create safety problems (any more than wheel itself -- you've all seen wheels collapsing on Macca).
How you gonna ban rotating ones? One can always argue they are integral part of the wheel.

I think you struggle to argue that they're an integral part of the wheel if you have seen the wheel running fine without them attached which means that they're not essential for the part to operate as a wheel ergo - not integral.

[timbo]

Movable aero. They're not integral and it's easy to prove as Ferrari ran the wheels for several weeks without the ducts.

The original wheel covers were only allowed because they were argued to be part of the brake duct, which is clearly not the case here.

Maybe right now they are checking things, if it is found useful they can redesign the wheel to include them.

[myurr]

Maybe right now they are checking things, if it is found useful they can redesign the wheel to include them.

Possibly, but it's a bit of a stretch. A team as well funded as Ferrari would have just built the wheels with these 'structural' ducts and tested them. Instead the built the original wheels with the attachment points for the ducts in place.

As I said previously if it's okay for teams to go down this route then why not just design the spokes to act as fan blades sucking air out from, for example, the underneath of the car. And if you're going to do that then what's the point of the ban on movable aero?

Frankly I think FOTA should confront Ferrari and either get them to remove these ducts or tear up the agreement that bans wheel covers. Otherwise all the teams will have to waste money designing new wheel ducts that aren't wheel covers honest (despite performing the same function). The FIA should also step in at the first race to outlaw these devices as movable aero.