Malaysian GP 2010 - Sepang

[andartop]

Lewis on the other hand chose a different strategy, which helped him seem quicker during the race, but ultimately brought him just ahead of his rivals at the end.

I thought that was because he got stuck behind a slower car (Sutil) for a long time ? We don't know how Lewis would've fared with clean air in front of him, so a meaningful conclusion regarding the outcome of different tyre strategies can't be reached.

Exactly. Same can be said of Alonso, who got stuck behind two slower cars (Massa and then Button) AND had a mechanical problem. So, the only fact we do have to go by is the finishing order, which also happens to be the only fact that actually matters at the end of the day. In view of the evidence then, it's safe to say the two different strategies ultimately resulted in pretty much similar finishing positions.

[myurr]

Exactly. Same can be said of Alonso, who got stuck behind two slower cars (Massa and then Button) AND had a mechanical problem. So, the only fact we do have to go by is the finishing order, which also happens to be the only fact that actually matters at the end of the day. In view of the evidence then, it's safe to say the two different strategies ultimately resulted in pretty much similar finishing positions.

So we can surmise that Alonso's tyre strategy will lead to a DNF?

Sorry, just kidding. The one common theme that is becoming apparent is that once you get into the top 8 or so then track position is more important than pace, so it looks optimal to do a shorter first stint than your rivals and then nurse the tyres home holding up anyone who does catch you.

Twice now on different tracks Lewis has caught cars at 1 to 2 seconds per lap only to be held in position until the end of the race. Like him or not he is one of the best overtakers in the field, so if he can't find a way past then there isn't much hope for the others.

[Giblet]

Was he blocking? Was a pass actually happening? Is a possible pass about to happen considered a pass that can be blocked? Is trying to break a tow actually pass blocking, or taking away the ability to attempt a pass?

Wow what a convoluted issue. The stewards ruled that it was not worth penalizing, but worth a warning to keep it form happening again.

Sounds like a good decision right in the middle of both sides of this disagreement.

I think that unless a car has actually started an actual pass attempt, blocking him is dangerous, and should be outlawed. Cutting across a car that is already on your inside, is dangerous, and the fact is is dangerous is why the rule was created. But if the car is behind you, to me, it's just good racing.

Let me be clear, I don't know if this is wrong or right, but I do not think making your car difficult to pass should be considered pass blocking. Cutting across a car in your lateral field is what is dangerous, and should be penalized.

I thought the move made great racing, showcased two talented drivers, and nobody was endangered by the event.

[timbo]

Let me be clear, I don't know if this is wrong or right, but I do not think making your car difficult to pass should be considered pass blocking.

Count how many drivers made their passes yesterday coming out of slipstrem. Imagine that majority of them wouldn't happen if the first car mad moves as Hamilton did. Is that a good racing?

[Pandamasque]

@ Giblet, I think it awas you who posted about the gullwing SC not being at Sepang. I guess what you saw was a medical car.

[Giblet]

I guess I wasn't clear enough when I said "let me be clear":

I don't know if it was right or wrong, good or bad, but it was exciting to watch.

He's been warned, and that's that.

[Giblet]

Thanks Panda, that is what I saw. That's the problem with being a Canadian fan. 4am is not a good time to be with it.

If I had watched it at noon, I might have been able to make the distinction.

[WhiteBlue]

Let me be clear, I don't know if this is wrong or right, but I do not think making your car difficult to pass should be considered pass blocking.

Count how many drivers made their passes yesterday coming out of slipstrem. Imagine that majority of them wouldn't happen if the first car mad moves as Hamilton did. Is that a good racing?

It is not! Good racing is selecting your racing line through corners in such away that the opponent is discouraged from overtaking. Changing direction on a straight is bad racing. Even one move on a straight isn't good from a fundamental point of view. We have it in the rules but it is not good for racing. Rules should help overtaking and not make it more difficult or dangerous. Drivers in front should hold their racing line on a straight. Full stop.

[andartop]

So we can surmise that Alonso's tyre strategy will lead to a DNF?

Sorry, just kidding. The one common theme that is becoming apparent is that once you get into the top 8 or so then track position is more important than pace, so it looks optimal to do a shorter first stint than your rivals and then nurse the tyres home holding up anyone who does catch you.

Twice now on different tracks Lewis has caught cars at 1 to 2 seconds per lap only to be held in position until the end of the race. Like him or not he is one of the best overtakers in the field, so if he can't find a way past then there isn't much hope for the others.

I was obviously referring to the fact that Alonso's inability to pass JB was partly due to his mechanical problems..

JB also demonstrated that doing a very short first stint might actually not be an optimal strategy.

Lots of other drivers got stuck behind slower cars, but then again this also has to do with when you choose to pit. If you are suggesting that one has to be more than 2 seconds/lap quicker in order to overtake, this would hardly support your view that Lewis is one of the best overtakers! It would just hint that the cars he did manage to pass were so much slower than him that, really, anybody in his car and same strategy would have overtaken! Sorry, just kidding!

[Mr Alcatraz]

Lewis on the other hand chose a different strategy, which helped him seem quicker during the race, but ultimately brought him just ahead of his rivals at the end.

I thought that was because he got stuck behind a slower car (Sutil) for a long time ? We don't know how Lewis would've fared with clean air in front of him, so a meaningful conclusion regarding the outcome of different tyre strategies can't be reached.

Wrong!! The FI was only slower in the corners. For some reason, maybe a gamble, maybe they knew something about the weather that most of the other teams didn't FI simply used a much smaller low drag/downforce rear wing. It's actually shows a minor weakness of the McL' (and others) in this situation. "the Boss" should have been able to make a pass on the slower sections, if he was so much impeaded by the FI on the straights. That FI was obviosly making great use of the adjustable front wing. Another case of blind fanboyism

[Pup]

Talking of overtaking, in Malaysia we ad plenty of it and in a completely dry race.
We had Maclarens cutting up the field, Mcalerens passing Ferraris, Ferraris passing Mclarens, Ranaults passing Mclarens, Renaults and williamses being passed, toro-rossos passing almost everything that was slower and even Hispanias passing Lotuses. All on track, all by racing. No wonder one in 15-20 maneuvers is contested, it is te side effect of lots of passing.
And while it is true that it was helped by the Maccas and the Ferries starting down the field, a lot of that passing happened in between them, and tus would probably have been there also if it was for P4 or for P1.
Maybe if we had the Red Bulls mixed in between as well we would have had the best dry race in ages.
I think the track was the key point, and with the right track and a couple of motives to have drivers in different strategies, these cars can properly race each other as it should be. Damn difficult to pass, but possible sometimes by luck, sometimes by speed and sometimes by tactics.
Still, not all tracks are Malaysia and we will have some more processions this year, but as for yesterday, it was the bast dry passing show in a god while, maybe since Suzuka 2005?

99% of that passing happened in the first 1/4 of the race, and was entirely due to Hamilton's qualifying position. The only interest in the remaining race involved Button and his failing tires. And absolutely nothing happened among the top five for the entire race, except for Schumacher's retirement. Nothing has changed - without the rain on Saturday, the race would have been a snoozer.

Once Hamilton reached cars that were anywhere close to his speed, he stopped dead. And everything he'd worked for was for naught, as Massa et al crawled back up behind him without making a single pass. I must have missed all that passing between the McLarens and Ferraris, since apart from the first corner, all I saw was Alonso making his was around an ailing Button. Had Jenson not gambled with an early tire change, we wouldn't have even had that to watch. In the end, all four finished in the same order they left the first corner.

[Shrieker]

@ Tazio

No, you are wrong. Have you ever heard anything called 'dirty air' ?

What was Lewis' rate of approach on Sutil, before he came right up to his gearbox ? 1 -1.5 sec. every lap ?

Also, are you aware of what we're talking about ? We're talking about tyre degredation. And we're talking what might have happened if Sutil wasn't there. Was Massa still going to catch Lewis ? Was Lewis going to eat his tyres too hard ?

WE

DON'T

KNOW.

Oh and... blind fanboyism ? I'm a Hamilton fan, but I have the ability to criticize him when he does wrong, and that's the difference between a fanboi and a fan. When do you accuse any and every fan of being a 'fanboi' , without even attempting to understand what is being discussed ? When you're a hater. Are you a hater ? I think not.

[andartop]

99% of that passing happened in the first 1/4 of the race, and was entirely due to Hamilton's qualifying position. The only interest in the remaining race involved Button and his failing tires. And absolutely nothing happened among the top five for the entire race, except for Schumacher's retirement. Nothing has changed - without the rain on Saturday, the race would have been a snoozer.

I think your post is self contradictory: if the only interest for you came out of Lewis' and JB's performance then had the rain not messed up their quali the race would have been even more interesting as you would have had the chance to admire what the McLaren drivers would be capable of achieving against the likes of Red Bull, Roseberg and Kubica rather than the newbies, the Torro Rossos and the underperforming Ferraris!

[marcush.]

oops ..
I saw overtaking with Williams and Toro rosso cars involved.. different Race,perhaps?...

we have seen one shitty race this year and two with some drama.. not too bad.

[Just_a_fan]

It is not! Good racing is selecting your racing line through corners in such away that the opponent is discouraged from overtaking. Changing direction on a straight is bad racing. Even one move on a straight isn't good from a fundamental point of view. We have it in the rules but it is not good for racing. Rules should help overtaking and not make it more difficult or dangerous. Drivers in front should hold their racing line on a straight. Full stop.

I can't believe I'm reading this! The driver in front should not deviate at all? Just drive in a straight line and wait for the car behind to overtake him? [-X

Overtaking is not racing; it's a part of racing. Defending your position is also a part of racing. The key is that both overtaking and defending are done safely (or as safe as we can reasonably expect young men in 200mph cars to be).

A gentle weave along the straight to try to stop a tow is safe and is part of defending. Chopping the other driver in the braking zone is not safe and should be dealt with. The rules should not help overtaking at all. They should increase the possibility of overtaking. It's up to the drivers' skills to make, and defend, a pass.

If it were up to you every driver out there this weekend would have been penalised because everyone of them moved across the track to defend a line at some point.

Listen to yourself!