Ferrari F10

[timbo]

Hence Ferrari should be forced to use standard installation, as their engines last year proved plenty good enough in terms of reliabilty.

Why not ask Renault to build better chassis if they screwed up with engine?
Seems like RBR is OK with it.

[mx_tifoso]

RBR are only fine with it because they have the slick suspension set-up!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Timbo,

Why did Ferrari make an adjustment knowing it would be detrimental to the reliability of the engine?
Because they knew after a few blow ups they would be allowed to change and eek out more horsepower.

Reliabilty mods my rear end

[timbo]

Timbo,

Why did Ferrari make an adjustment knowing it would be detrimental to the reliability of the engine?
Because they knew after a few blow ups they would be allowed to change and eek out more horsepower.

Reliabilty mods my rear end

Tell me, what would you prefer if you were Alonso -- to have a bit more power (you CAN'T get a lot) with grip-penalties for unscheduled engine change, or two more fresh engines for the final GPs?
Fact is, Ferrai had problems only on hot races (Bahrain and Malaysia). There were NO testing in such conditions pre-season. So, they couldn't have info.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The engine type is the same as last year.

Renault were given "special dispensation because Ferrari and Mercedes agreed to let them make basic changes to the engine for more power to compete.

My beef here is this appears too perfect to be a "reliability" issue.
Ferrari seem to admit there is a problem with the engine running lean, if thats the case then they screwed up by making the tank to small.
Pnuematic shmatic, thats garbage. There engines worked fine last year and if they can work in curent conditions, why dont they admit they compromised cooling for added aero benefit?
Instead the get to keep their aero advantage AND change engine..... [-X

[timbo]

The engine type is the same as last year.

Renault were given "special dispensation because Ferrari and Mercedes agreed to let them make basic changes to the engine for more power to compete.

My beef here is this appears too perfect to be a "reliability" issue.
Ferrari seem to admit there is a problem with the engine running lean, if thats the case then they screwed up by making the tank to small.
Pnuematic shmatic, thats garbage. There engines worked fine last year and if they can work in curent conditions, why dont they admit they compromised cooling for added aero benefit?
Instead the get to keep their aero advantage AND change engine..... [-X

You seem to forget that Sauber has same problems, too.

[timbo]

Renault were given "special dispensation because Ferrari and Mercedes agreed to let them make basic changes to the engine for more power to compete.

And I can't understand why is it OK for you to make changes to get MORE power.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

No power upgrade, No Renault.

even with 2 upgrades the Renault is still slightly off Mercedes and Ferrari.

Simple as that.

[Astro1]

@JohnsonsEvilTwin

even with 2 upgrades the Renault is still slightly off Mercedes and Ferrari.

You're funny. Have you seen Red Bull this year and last year? Fact is, you have NO IDEA where the teams are in terms of power.

If people are bitter, they need to stop blaming Ferrari for this and instead look at the “engine freeze” as the problem.

People long ago, before the freeze was introduced said that it would be more of a slow down rather than outright stop in development.

There’s just no way to stop development when you allow modification based on “reliability”.

The two, performance and reliability are related so changes to reliability are in fact changes to performance.

One could (and likely have)simply push the engine beyond proper operating conditions and ooops there goes reliability. Better ask the FIA for a modification allowance.

I’m surprised we haven’t seen more of this frankly it seems like a huge area of exploit.

BTW Renault straight up asked for a performance upgrade. Ferrari at least had some engines blow up before they went following the example. I see nothing wrong with what Ferrari are doing.

Is there a rule they are breaking somewhere? NO.

[ringo]

Is STR still using ferrari power?
It could be the engine angle because str have had no engine problems so far.

It's good that ferrari get to improve their engine's reliability, can't have them blowing up every 2 races now can we?
I just want a good 2010 season, if it means ferrari get's extra special allowance, then so be it. We need them at the front.
Renault should introduce a new engine in the form of NISSAN, then they might be able to up the power.

[timbo]

Is STR still using ferrari power?
It could be the engine angle because str have had no engine problems so far.

Sauber had problems, and I haven't heard they have angled engine.

[mith]

Renault were given "special dispensation because Ferrari and Mercedes agreed to let them make basic changes to the engine for more power to compete.

And I can't understand why is it OK for you to make changes to get MORE power.

As far as I remember Merc has changed their engine due to reliability issues and suddenly gained more power. I think Merc wasn't only engine manufacturer who did that trick, but I don't remember who also it was. Renault was playing fair (at that time ) and was on loss.

But still I think that whole engine freeze is totally crappy idea. It didn't stop engine war, but made this sport even more about cheating :/

[Speed_399]

The way the process works is that a team or engine builder must submit a report to the FIA about a part which has proved unreliable, together with photographic evidence of its failure and request a modification to that part.
This report is then sent out by the FIA to the other teams and engine makers and they have five days to voice any objections, otherwise permission to make the change is granted.

just to add some details on how it works

[triart3d]

1st: FIA permited modifications due to reability isues.
Ferrari had probed it. Modifications were granted.
This year, improvements, updates, are prohibited. The FIA banned RENAULT make some improvements this year, because they seemed to improved their fuel consumption.
Ferrari is interested in improving their fuel consumption more than power, as it gives more benefits in the race that improved potency.
5% = 0,3Sec/lap with race weight.


2nd: WHO is FIA technical engineer?
GILES SIMON


3rd:Ferrari F-duct by Gazetta




As always.. sorry for my bad english: google.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@JohnsonsEvilTwin

even with 2 upgrades the Renault is still slightly off Mercedes and Ferrari.

You're funny. Have you seen Red Bull this year and last year? Fact is, you have NO IDEA where the teams are in terms of power.

If you gonna come in all guns blazing like some clown, you best not miss!
And miss indeed you have!

Red Bull arent quick due to their engine, Red Bull wanted to dump Renault at the earliest convenience, they actively even considered Cosworth Power and were turned down by Mercedes Benz.
So thanks for the compliment of being "funny", but the reality is its you who has NO IDEA!

Informed opinion suggest Mercedes lead Ferrari in terms of power and consumption... ONLY JUST.
Renault consume less but also have less power.
Cosworth lag behind these.

disagree if you must but dont come with the guns next time....