Team: Stefano Domenicali (TP), Mario Almondo (Director of Operations), Aldo Costa (TD), Nicolas Tombazis (CD), Luca Marmorini (HE)
Drivers: Felipe Massa (7), Fernando Alonso (8)
you do realize that hp is a function of RPM don't you?autogyro wrote:Sorry flyn-frog, if Nascar are lossing 300 hp from valve train operation then the engines should be scrapped and proper engines used. I doubt you would be able to turn them over to start them.
If Ferrari reduced the pressure in the (nitrogen) pneumatic valve spring system, the valves would bounce. That is unless they over pressured the original system, which would put way to much load on the cam lobe to valve contact area.
In any case all that would be needed to alter this, would be a variation in the Nitrogen feed line external to the engine.
I you are talking about valve train friction, it does not work as simply as that.flynfrog wrote:you do realize that hp is a function of RPM don't you?autogyro wrote:Sorry flyn-frog, if Nascar are lossing 300 hp from valve train operation then the engines should be scrapped and proper engines used. I doubt you would be able to turn them over to start them.
If Ferrari reduced the pressure in the (nitrogen) pneumatic valve spring system, the valves would bounce. That is unless they over pressured the original system, which would put way to much load on the cam lobe to valve contact area.
In any case all that would be needed to alter this, would be a variation in the Nitrogen feed line external to the engine.
I never said it was that simple. Real world testing on the other hand shows it takes about 300hp to turn a nascar v8 valve train to 8000rpm. Is it all that surprising in an engine that makes 800 hp.autogyro wrote:I you are talking about valve train friction, it does not work as simply as that.flynfrog wrote:you do realize that hp is a function of RPM don't you?autogyro wrote:Sorry flyn-frog, if Nascar are lossing 300 hp from valve train operation then the engines should be scrapped and proper engines used. I doubt you would be able to turn them over to start them.
If Ferrari reduced the pressure in the (nitrogen) pneumatic valve spring system, the valves would bounce. That is unless they over pressured the original system, which would put way to much load on the cam lobe to valve contact area.
In any case all that would be needed to alter this, would be a variation in the Nitrogen feed line external to the engine.
Jersey Tom wrote:f1speculation.net
pretty much. maybe when they redesigned the seal it allowed them to use less spring pressure or lower the mass of the valve train. Like JT said its all speculation. But its much more thought provoking them screaming: Ferarriririri are Cheaters!!!!!!!!!!autogyro wrote:So what has valve train friction got to do with using to much gas????
The valve train is not directly effected by the gas valve springs, only the valve is and that must have been ok in qualifying in all this years races so far.
do you need a diagramautogyro wrote:No it is not. If this were not the case, the technical discusion would have been killed stone dead by the Toffosi.
Their technical arguments did not stand up and still do not.
So again, Why would redesigning the valve gas spring seals require a change in the mass or design of anything else on the valve train?
How could such a change result in an increase in power?
These are simple technical questions about F1 technology on the F1 technology site. Why is there a problem with this?
I disagree completely. Of course some work for reliability can result in an increase in power output but not on this issue. Fota is the problem with enforcing this regulation. Ferrari and the other top teams are still holding a gun to the smaller teams with their so called gentlemens agreements. It is easier and less damaging for the smaller teams to agree and not make waves. It is exactly the same with any regulations needed to reduce aero and downforce.ecapox wrote:What pretty much seals the deal for me is that Ferrari presented this to the FIA technical group as well as ALL the other teams. Everyone Ok'd it and the HP gains are speculation...nothing more. This leads me to believe that there is an understanding, between teams, that any reliability fixes can, and will, result in small HP gains. Everyone directly affected is OK with that...except armchair F1 team principles and engineers found on the internet.
Ultimately this is good for ALL teams. Imagine if teams blocked reliabilty fixes because they believed that it would increase overall engine performance by a few HP? 10 cars would finish races and everyone here would be complaining about what a boring season this is.
Let me ask you a practical question.autogyro wrote:No it is not. If this were not the case, the technical discusion would have been killed stone dead by the Toffosi.
Their technical arguments did not stand up and still do not.
So again, Why would redesigning the valve gas spring seals require a change in the mass or design of anything else on the valve train?
How could such a change result in an increase in power?
These are simple technical questions about F1 technology on the F1 technology site. Why is there a problem with this?
You realise that you are now saying that Ferrari are cheating?flynfrog wrote:do you need a diagramautogyro wrote:No it is not. If this were not the case, the technical discusion would have been killed stone dead by the Toffosi.
Their technical arguments did not stand up and still do not.
So again, Why would redesigning the valve gas spring seals require a change in the mass or design of anything else on the valve train?
How could such a change result in an increase in power?
These are simple technical questions about F1 technology on the F1 technology site. Why is there a problem with this?
no body said it was required. This is how to gain performance under making the engine more reliable.
