Drivers: Robert Kubica (11), Vitaly Petrov (12) Team: Eric Boullier (TP), Bob Bell (MD), Rob White (Deputy managing director - engine), James Allison (TD), Tim Densham (CD), Dirk De Beer (HA), Alan Parmane (Chief Race Engineer)
A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
autogyro wrote:If there was a way to measure DF there would be.
This would be fairly easy to set up with the FIA.
Of course, it would then allow a direct accurate reference to DF levels that would allow for sensible regulation.
Yep, which is why Eddie Jordan's 'fifty percent reduction in downforce' soapbox suggestion is totall bollocks. You can't measure and you certainly can't compare. Personally, I think this fixation on aerodynamics is nonsense, but I digress.
You know, assuming constant Cl with speed (and I don't think numbers will change much at the slow F1 speeds), raymondu's numbers surely allow easy comparison... because you are indeed measuring Cl in certain units. Now you only have to find out total units of the RB6, the F10, MP4/25... good luck! I suppose it's STP for all the teams.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr
Well you can measure downforce - from the point of view of regulating it. All the FIA has to do is stipulate how much is allowed in KG's or whatever. Enforcing it and measuring it dynamically is a whole different problem that has been discussed to death in the past.
All I was saying about points of d/f is that it's a unit the teams refer to.
Perhaps it's as simple as a percentage point - with 100% being as the car starts it's first test? Why tell everyone exactly how many KG's you have at a certain speed.
Should the FIA be allowed to recieved real-time telemetry data from all cars in future? Then things such as suspension loading could be used as a guide to how much downforce? Is that possible?
PNSD wrote:On the subject of enforcing it and measuring it.
Should the FIA be allowed to recieved real-time telemetry data from all cars in future? Then things such as suspension loading could be used as a guide to how much downforce? Is that possible?
PNSD wrote:On the subject of enforcing it and measuring it.
Should the FIA be allowed to recieved real-time telemetry data from all cars in future? Then things such as suspension loading could be used as a guide to how much downforce? Is that possible?
Of course it is and it should be simple.
How would you account for air density/temperature changes?
Different weight transfer?
Also, this would still leave a place for working solely of DF, e.g. shaping DF/speed envelope (like McLaren does with F-duct) to get more DF at lower speed, and using some trickery to reduce DF at high speed.
Well let's take the long straight at china for example.
In real-time the FIA should see the suspension loading increase as the speed and downforce increase. From that they can take the min and max levels can they not? The only real place they can measure the downforce and compare it against teams is on a straight where weight transfer wouldnt be accountable.
If there were any devices to cut downforce on a straight, that would also be detected through the readings, surley?
PNSD wrote:Well let's take the long straight at china for example.
In real-time the FIA should see the suspension loading increase as the speed and downforce increase. From that they can take the min and max levels can they not? The only real place they can measure the downforce and compare it against teams is on a straight where weight transfer wouldnt be accountable.
If there were any devices to cut downforce on a straight, that would also be detected through the readings, surley?
And then the car hits a bump, and that sudden peak makes an easy maximum search impractical. Furthermore, you need to know the exact spring rates of the car... including the tires.
I am not amazed by F1 cars in Monaco. I want to see them driving in the A8 highway: Variable radius corners, negative banking, and extreme narrowings that Tilke has never dreamed off. Oh, yes, and "beautiful" weather tops it all.
"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future." Niels Bohr
RH1300S wrote:
Obviously they were very cagey about some of the parts on view (I should imagine there will also be parts not on view....... ) - from what I saw there it's obvious there are some very clever things happening with that car.
RH1300S wrote:They can measure it in sausages for all I care - at the end of the day it only matters to the guys running the car.
Maybe we should say that Renault added 30 sausages of downforce for this weeknd's GP. Then we could all agree to move on...........
So you're saying that the R30 has gained 30 points of downforce in Monaco??
Exactly what new parts has Renault brought to Monaco? Cuz i havent seen any...
) - from what I saw there it's obvious there are some very clever things happening with that car.
