Monaco GP 2010 - Monte Carlo

[ggajic]

You use "never" erroneously. Green flags on this race's last lap may seem a bit conflicting with 40.13, but that does not mean that 40.13 can never be applied in other races. What 40.13 basically says (to the drivers) is that if there's still debris out on the last lap the SC will come in to the pits but you guys got to the finish line alone with no overtaking (as in don't be confused by lack of SC ahead of you, you're not allowed to overtake). It's pretty simple. The problem is that clearing a track can take many (SC) laps if it's a hard accident so if it happens 3 laps before the end it might need 5 laps to be cleaned (so never) or it might need 2 so it gets cleaned right on the last lap. That's the only situation that can be taken as confusing. Otherwise 40.13 is an easy rule to apply. It is patently not overridden in the majority of cases. There is only some ambiguity (according to some people) in a few cases. So your initial generalising statement was wrong. 40.13 is not "always" overridden, it only might be in this case.

Read 40.11 again. 40.13 is always overridden due to simple fact: there is no clear difference between SC in this lap and ending of race under SC. And if you add fact that SC line is now before S-F line it becomes clear why. Of course 40.13 would be easy to apply if idiot who wrote it for a second had a thought how it would look like in reality. This is exact reason why rules should be clear and why they should take into consideration every possible outcome.

[segedunum]

Obviously the creators of the rules included it for a reason,

Oh God...You think there is reason, logic or common sense involved with FIA rule making process?????

You can put as many question-marks as you want at the end of your rhetorical question. It won't change the fact that you're wrong.

Above you've committed the most basic logical fallacy there is - that there simply must be a reason for......something. Additionally, saying someone is wrong does not make them so I'm afraid because like every other Tom, Dick or Harry you never discuss the wording of 40.13. We merely get your interpretation of what you think was intended.

...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Segedunum,

Well said if I may say.

[Richard]

You're all forgetting that 40.4 says that yellow flags and SC boards define the duration of the intervention. If the yellows are showing and the SC boards are out then the track is under "safety car deployed" status. The SC car can be off track to allow the driver to have a cup of tea with his granny for all I care, the track is still "safety car deployed" status.

Don't confuse that with the other rules that define are how various people and cars behave during that status.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

You're all forgetting that 40.4 says that yellow flags and SC boards define the duration of the intervention. If the yellows are showing and the SC boards are out then the track is under "safety car deployed" status. The SC car can be off track to allow the driver to have a cup of tea with his granny for all I care, the track is still "safety car deployed" status.

Don't confuse that with the other rules that define are how various people and cars behave during that status.

Please can you drop this now? Nothing is conclusive at all, regardless of how you would like to paint it. The facts are thus,
1.The safety car was declared to be IN on the final lap.
2.Race control informed the teams of this.
3.Nowhere did it mention that the race was to finish under the SC.
4.The Lights of the SC were turned OFF coming out the tunnel.
5.Green flags were waving to indicate race conditions on the final corner.

Also and perhaps most importantly, the SC lights should have remained on to indicate that the race was to finish under yellows. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN.
So for anyone to rigidly stick to a rulebook, they have to be aware of what is going on trackside. Somthing the stewards, marshalls and the FIA all seemed to get confused by. Why else did it take them 2 hours to get a contrived verdict?
Expect Schumacher to be put into 6th, possibly even keep his position.

If not the FIA should punish themselves for their incompetance!

[andrew]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 129072.ece

Damon Hill getting hate mail after his ruling it seems.

[Jersey Tom]

Race is over. Ruling is what it is. Making a fuss about it isn't going to change anything.

The end.

[Richard]

....

We're in agreement.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Race is over. Ruling is what it is. Making a fuss about it isn't going to change anything.

The end.

+1

But it aint over yet.....

[andrew]

Race is over. Ruling is what it is. Making a fuss about it isn't going to change anything.

The end.

+1

But it aint over yet.....

My word. Johnson agrees with someone! Is that not a sign of the apocolypse or something?

[Richard]

oh... and I should also add that rational curiosity is often confused with fanboy ying yang of people searching for a half truth to back up their belief.

You can usually tell the difference by the number of excalamtion marks along with emotive language expressed in bold to highlight how it is just so unfair.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Race is over. Ruling is what it is. Making a fuss about it isn't going to change anything.

The end.

+1

But it aint over yet.....

My word. Johnson agrees with someone! Is that not a sign of the apocolypse or something?

Easy Andrew Im just reloading my barrells
Love to bump into Damon Hill to ask him his ahem ....views of the incident.
Im riled because I think Schumacher was done over for an FIA driven PR excercise, Nothing like a 7 time champ getting done over by the FIA for ratings boost is there....Look at all the internet forums and message boards, it hasnt been this busy since....well Mercedes anounced Schumis return!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

oh... and I should also add that rational curiosity is often confused with fanboy ying yang of people searching for a half truth to back up their belief.

You can usually tell the difference by the number of excalamtion marks along with emotive language expressed in bold to highlight how it is just so unfair.

FACTS mate

[WhiteBlue]

The problem is that green flags/lights were clearly shown giving the go ahead to race. In normal race conditions, once greens are shown the race is on. Schumacher is unfortunately on the wrong side of the regs however, the person that controls the signals appears to have messed up.

Many people believe this and I did as well. But it is not true. The meaning of the green flag is defined by appendix H of the international sporting code.

4.1.2 Flag signals to be used at observation posts:
f) Green flag: This should be used to indicate that the track is clear and should be waved at the observation post immediately after the incident that necessitated the use of one or more yellow flags.
-
It may also be used, if deemed necessary by the Clerk of the Course, to signal the start of a warm-up lap or the start of a practice session.

As you see here it only signals that the track is clear of dangers that were previously indicated by yellow flags. It is not a signal that allows racing per se. So based on that regulation drivers can safely increase their speed again. But if another rule forbids overtaking the green flag isn't actually contradicting that interdiction.

[andrew]

Easy Andrew Im just reloading my barrells
Love to bump into Damon Hill to ask him his ahem ....views of the incident.
Im riled because I think Schumacher was done over for an FIA driven PR excercise, Nothing like a 7 time champ getting done over by the FIA for ratings boost is there....Look at all the internet forums and message boards, it hasnt been this busy since....well Mercedes anounced Schumis return!

You sir keep you barrells to yourself!

I want it to be a coincidence that it was Hill that penalised Schumacher but I am too much of a cynic. I can see the former driver acting as a race steward scheme ending at the end of the year. There has been too many controversial decisions so far, in both handing out and not handing out penalties. This is not good for the image of the sport is it?

I wouldn't say it is a PR exercise by the FIA. Remember, Jean Todt is still close with Schumacher. Besides, shenanigans like that in the FIA belong to another administration.