Red Bull RB6

[marcush.]

The radiator stream being part of the exhaust stream would make perfect sense.
However, why has nobody else thought of this?

For me at least, the effective diffusing of radiator air is imperative to overall efficiency.

where would one ideally put the waste heat exit of the radiators? the exit channel could be extended to the very end of the car ,where low pressure should be maximum..
or would there be any better area for the hot less dense air.....could one have smaller exit opening s with that approach?

[PlatinumZealot]

Hot air can have high pressure too. It may be less dense but it certainly has a lot of energy. Like for instance a hot air balloon, so hot air can cause lift. The speed of the air can cancel it out though.

One can think about the different combination of gas velocity(the direction matters in this case) and temperature that contribute to the pressure of the gas.

The radiator air is hot and slow.
The exhaust gas is hot and fast.

So there are some implications. Somebody can work it out; my memory of thermo is very hazy right now.

[f1ssk]

hey, Im new to F1technical. my 1st post.
I think im late on the discussion on the exhaust gas being used in the diffuser.
Anyways, The buoyancy of the hot gas delays the transition to turbulence in the diffuser and this can enable RB6 to have higher expansion. I got this idea from a video
I came across some ancient videos which proved interesting.
http://web.mit.edu/hml/ncfmf.html
watch the turbulence video.almost towards the end there is a part where in a channel they demonstrate if the hotter fluid is made to flow above the colder fluid it delays turbulence.

I think this is the most crucial part of the RB6 performance.

from billshoe : turbulence video - 22:30

[bill shoe]

f1ssk,

1. Your comment about higher temp flow delaying turbulence is probably the highest quality and most relevant statement on this thread. This is the first thing I've read that plausibly explains the significance of the low RB exhaust.

2. Those movies also have an exquisite retro quality. Perhaps no suprise since they were made in the early 60's. I particularly like the professor/scientist guy smoking a pipe at the beginning of "Turbulence".

Stop! Do not post anything else! If you stop now you will easily have the highest average post quality of anyone in the history of F1 Technical.

Edit: If you don't have enough enthusiasm for retro science movies to watch the whole thing then cut straight to the money shot at 22:30 in "Turbulence".

[Blackout]

You (some members) didn't knew that the RB6 and (the RB5) uses hot air and exhaust gazes to optimise the diffuser and the beam wing ?

whatever...

the RB6 received an even tighter rear bodywork in Barcelona (and many other updates, like the floor, mentioned in the previous pages)

Barcelona (March)
Barcelona (February)
(don't pay attention to the yellow circle; It's not me who drawn it)



Look at this picture and compare...
http://f1.f-e-n.net/images/f1/20100508/ ... sat-22.jpg

[bill shoe]

Blackout, I don't think it's significant to simply say the RB6 "uses hot air and exhaust gasses to optimise the diffuser and the beam wing". The significance of the f1ssk post is that he gives a plausible and functional description of HOW the RB6 might use hot air and exhaust gas to optimze the aero.

[Blackout]

I was not talking about f1ssk (or his great post).

[f1ssk]

hey ev1 .. thanks for agreeing with my pitch
another thought of...
the exhaust gases by itself is very fast...(faster than the flow of the air through the diffuser)
for the previous discussion to work, the velocity of the two gases have to be relatively equal... otherwise other instabilities (helmholtz instabilities -- watch the instabilities video in the previous post) will again disturb the flow.
the exhaust gases are hot and fast and radiator gases are slower ... an optimal mixing for the two gases can be used to make the velocity relatively constant for the hot and cold air.

[univex]

Scarbs has his write up on the new blown wing at http://bit.ly/9gvB8h. Now just to add the snorkel for Turkey to turn it on and off. Interesting how Newey has such a wide entry to the hollow wing on the bottom plane. Is the shark fin going to have a cross shaped cross-section?

[BreezyRacer]

Also, I'm not sure anyone noticed but the beam wing was changed for Monaco too, probably in concert with the blown wing, but perhaps just an incremental enhancement.

Don't you just love how Red Bull never sleeps ..

[univex]

If he does have a cross shaped cross-section that may give him a horizontal flat surface all the way to the bottom element feeding the rear wing with clean stabilised air. Random speculation, 8 days to go before all is revealed.

[segedunum]

Also, I'm not sure anyone noticed but the beam wing was changed for Monaco too, probably in concert with the blown wing, but perhaps just an incremental enhancement.

Yep, it looks like an incremental improvement they are testing that can be run independently but will probably be the first stage in a larger change involving a full blown wing or a ducted system. They know how to add and test improvements I'll give them that. I must say, if they run a ducted system in Turkey I will be most intrigued as to how they get that in the car unless it's a Tardis.

Not one pitot tube or a hint of flo-viz in sight.

[BreezyRacer]

I posted this pic from a video from the China race, a few pages back, before Monaco last week. It looks to me that there are (might be) inlets in the area below the lower control arm mounts and above the center splitter area. Visually I'm speaking of the area below the control arm pivots and above the ride height sensor. They appear to branch into the radiator inlet areas, 1 per side. I'm not talking about the barge boards though these inlets could have been fabricated as add ons to the chassis, thus not requiring any crash testing. What if this is the location where they are going to drive the blown wing?

Certainly we can debate whether there are inlets there but it looks pretty much like that to me and this part of the car is almost never seen .. it's sure to be a high pressure area though and perhaps ideal for routing back via the side pods to the engine cover .. just speculation on my part though .. can you "overblow" the wing with too much pressure or would, as I suspect, higher pressure provide a better effect?

[PlatinumZealot]

I think it's the contrast from the "kangaroo testicle" shaped thing (ride height sensor?) and the vertical strakes under the nose. Then agian maybe another veiwing angle is needed to make sure.

[Mysticf1]

ScarbsF1 via Twitter

Its emerging that changes to the the Red Bull diffuser were successfully protested at Monaco. I will try to get more tech info on the issue

Interesting