Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

[Lurk]

I knew it !

[Shaddock]

I feel a lot of teams adopt "safe" read mainstream strategies but ignore the fact they are not matching the speed of the front runners anyways.So why should you compromise your elapsed time for your own race?
Or is there anybody out claiming starting on softs on a heavy car would be a quicker option ?I can´t see this.the softs will work best on low fuel and rubbered in track
and open up a much bigger window of usage not just the handful of nursing laps we see .
Of course you could gain even more with a driver who is good at defending track position as you can hold up guys with potentially quicker tyres for a while....but I don´t even think this is a big issue.
but then teams are not filling up their cars as it saves them potentially 5,8 seconds over race distance....discounting they have to run slow to make it to the end...

You might end up getting stuck behind a slower car after a poor Q3 on primes. It wouldn't matter then how far you could run on the first set of tyres if you had been held up by 1-2 seconds a lap, for 18-20 laps.

[furnik28]

ok some of are arm chair experts i think. so at the end of the day its the drivers responsibility behind the wheel as vettel did not show, tipical blonde momment as his finger gesture twirling his locks.

[marcush.]

as the season unfolds ,we see the top guns redbull and now Macs drive away in the distance..
Renault ,Merc and ferrari and Fi /sauber as a second group falling back at a rate of almost 1 second/per lap.
my assumption is ,the prime is ultimately .5sec to .8 s slower then the option but to make the softs stand for those 18/20 laps you cannot extract this extra performance.
so in reality your speed is almost the same during this time ,you only have to be good in protecting your trackposition(send invitations to your opponents to try things in places where overtaking s not possible and position yourself perfectly in those areas where you might be vulnerable...
my original idea is to make sure you get into Q3 ,so top 10 and be content with 9 or tenth instead of claiming 6,7 or 8th so your speed in the race is not really compromised in fact with the primes you´d be able to push harder .

[djos]

it doesn't get any clearer than that!

indeed! and i agree with him though i dont see the point in arguing about whose fault it was cause it clearly doesnt change the outcome. i was merely pointing out the initial statements and the obvious team order that was failed to be handed down to webber by his race engineer.

There where no team orders, Helmet Marko does not speak for the team, he's DM's mate and is only there to pump up Seb's tires and apparently cause trouble for Mark (see Flav Manager BS rumours he started last year)!

Seb had 1 more lap of full power and this is the only reason he tried a desperate and poorly planned move on Mark thinking that Mark would get out of his way when they where both fighting for the win and lead in the WDC!

I repeat, There where no team orders despite the BS Helmet is sprouting!

[Ray]

I find it amazing that both RedBull an McLaren were so far ahead of the rest of the field that Mark And Sebastian can play destruction derby and Mark STILL got out ahead of Schumacher after a tire a wing change stop. That's scary fast. Also it was awesome to see Lewis and Jenson dice like that for a bit and not give an inch but not crash each other too, consummate professionals. Awesome race. Wanted to see Webber win it and now he's got even more psychological pressure on Sebastian because of Sebastians rash overtake attempt. Even if the feelings around the world are that Sebastian is favored, he's got to be feeling the pressure now.

[mx_tifoso]

... Also it was awesome to see Lewis and Jenson dice like that for a bit and not give an inch but not crash each other too, consummate professionals...

Had they come a cm closer they would have crashed, as they did come together at one point, but not quite enough to cause trouble. Purely luck though. That would have been insanely hilarious if they took each other out. Not because they're McLaren, but for the sake of entertainment and irony.

[djos]

... Also it was awesome to see Lewis and Jenson dice like that for a bit and not give an inch but not crash each other too, consummate professionals...

Had they come a cm closer they would have crashed, as they did come together at one point, but not quite enough to cause trouble. Purely luck though. That would have been insanely hilarious if they took each other out. Not because they're McLaren, but for the sake of entertainment and irony.

They did appear to graze wheels at one point so they where very lucky - Great dice tho!

[clarkiesyeah]

This made me chuckle...


Alex Wurtz:

"... We are not in a charity event, Webber hasn't got to hand it away on a silver plate for Sebastian Vettel. So, was very clear in my point of view Vettels fault, he did the last move to the right in front of Webbers car and Webber can't just beam himself away like spocky can in star trek... So it's Vettels fault."

Hmm, must be a fault in the annular confinment beam, get Newey on it quick..

[Just_a_fan]

The funniest thing about the whole RB crash is that, about 5 laps before, I'd said to SWMBO "what we need now is for the Red Bulls to take each other out and Lewis to win". She's a bit of a Webber fan (and not for his racing ) so this was just a dig at her.

She told me off but was then most crest-fallen when Vettel did his thing in to the side of Webber.

Me? I laughed like a drain at how unlikely it all was

[ringo]

I feel a lot of teams adopt "safe" read mainstream strategies but ignore the fact they are not matching the speed of the front runners anyways.So why should you compromise your elapsed time for your own race?
Or is there anybody out claiming starting on softs on a heavy car would be a quicker option ?I can´t see this.the softs will work best on low fuel and rubbered in track
and open up a much bigger window of usage not just the handful of nursing laps we see .
Of course you could gain even more with a driver who is good at defending track position as you can hold up guys with potentially quicker tyres for a while....but I don´t even think this is a big issue.
but then teams are not filling up their cars as it saves them potentially 5,8 seconds over race distance....discounting they have to run slow to make it to the end...

One thing that trumps starting on hards for the slow teams in top 10 is the safety car. It's best to be on softs if there is an early saftey car. You dont want to be on hards when a SC comes out on lap 5 and then have to come in to the pits only to run softs for 50+ laps.
Or stay on the primes behind the SC while everyone else is diving into the pits to fulfill their mandatory pit stop. You then trundle around with the pack behind you on their fresher primes waiting for you to dive in for your mandatory pit. And they pass you by.

[ISLAMATRON]

after all is said and done Vettel got just what he deserved for his stupid move, a DNF... Now he is 15 points behind Webbo instead of the 7 had he not rammed him.

Points are so stupid

[segedunum]

I dont want to sound abrupt but Its not incorrect.
The opinion is based on what was actually said by the teams, drivers etc.
If you have stats then I will do no other than agree - Although I doubt you do have.

Frankly, I don't care what was said by the teams and drivers because that has proved not to be reliable. Look at the lap times of Webber, Vettel and Hamilton and the gaps between them and then look at the lap times of Vettel and the gap to Hamilton in the two laps prior.

(BTW If Webber and Hamilton were in fuel conserve mode - and Vettel wasnt - That would obviously make him faster - So yes some of the above statement is correct - But not in the way I think you mean.)

Given that Vettel was doing similar lap times to both Webber and Hamilton prior then that means they did something to Vettel, not to Webber.

In the context of the discussion that means that Red Bull were sandbagging relative to McLaren.

[segedunum]

You have every right not to believe it but the history of the 7 races so far shows that McLaren are chopping some tenths in EVERY race.Thats a FACT.Even 0.1-0.2 doesnt really matter its still an improvement.

It's a FACT - in capitals no less. How can one argue with that?

I'm afraid we'll need more than Martin Whitmarsh's confident proclamations. Unfortunately, these alleged gains turn out to be total crap because when you say 0.3 seconds what track is that based on? A 1 second gap at one circuit will be 0.5 at another, and it gets more complicated when you compare McLaren's times to their rivals because they gain speed and lap time relative via different methods. For example, in Turkey they didn't have the downforce or stability through turn 8 and their car was rather shockingly unstable under braking but they made up for that deficit. Try translating that to a different circuit.

If they're basing their predictions on that kind of logic then it's small wonder that Monaco came as a bit of a shock and Martin Whitmarsh refused to tell anyone how much lap time they'd gained there.

[Remote_Access]

after all is said and done Vettel got just what he deserved for his stupid move, a DNF... Now he is 15 points behind Webbo instead of the 7 had he not rammed him.

Points are so stupid

Exactly. The whole paradox is that Mark ended up better off in relation to his primary threat. Probably no reason to be too disappointed really, other than losing ground to Mclaren.