Ferrari F10

[aral]

Traction Control Issue- The engine has severe fluttering or misfiring sounds throughout the video. This is a clear contrast to the moments when the engine is pulling clean. Something is going on. The odd fluttering sound occurs right after gear changes.

The rules used to allow (and may still allow) 200 milliseconds for the computer to actively control the throttle after a gearchange. The was because the throttle needed to be actively controlled for the gearchange itself. If I remember correctly, Ferrari was the first to take advantage of this loophole to create 0.2 second bursts of traction control after gearchanges. The interesting thing is that the burst in the above video seems to be longer than 200 ms. Less than 1 second, but more than 200 ms. Perhaps after the 200 ms closed-loop traction control phase there is an open-loop transition phase back to the regular engine map, and this transition has the effect of making the fluttering noise longer than 200 ms.

I made a bit of a guess above, but anyone who wants to claim there is no traction control needs to come up with some kind of plausible explaination for the severe fluttering noise. A statement that Ferrari would not break the rules is not a functional explaination in this regard.

The "fluttering" could be caused by numerous things! It could be something in the recording of sound, with a break down at certain megahertz, or it could be something in the transmission of sound . But as I said, there is NOTHING to prevent Ferrari, or anyone, using TC if they so want, in testing or promo events. But the ECUs are programmed to not allow it. It is nobody's responsibility to prove that Ferrari are not using TC, but it is the responsibilty of the "accusers" to prove they are, and not just to say that "it sounds like...."

[zgred]

[Mr Alcatraz]

[bill shoe]

The "fluttering" could be caused by numerous things! It could be something in the recording of sound, with a break down at certain megahertz, or it could be something in the transmission of sound . But as I said, there is NOTHING to prevent Ferrari, or anyone, using TC if they so want, in testing or promo events. But the ECUs are programmed to not allow it. It is nobody's responsibility to prove that Ferrari are not using TC, but it is the responsibilty of the "accusers" to prove they are, and not just to say that "it sounds like...."

The Ferrari pics being posted by others are gorgeous, so i don't want to distract too much from that. I will say:

1. I think Ferrari could be running traction control AND still be legal by current rules. This is the gearshift "loophole" I mentioned.

2. I think the "it sounds like..." evidence is pretty strong. I agree with autogyro that Ferrari is running traction control.

3. I may never use "agree" and "autogyro" in the same sentence again.

[autogyro]

Traction Control Issue- The engine has severe fluttering or misfiring sounds throughout the video. This is a clear contrast to the moments when the engine is pulling clean. Something is going on. The odd fluttering sound occurs right after gear changes.

The rules used to allow (and may still allow) 200 milliseconds for the computer to actively control the throttle after a gearchange. The was because the throttle needed to be actively controlled for the gearchange itself. If I remember correctly, Ferrari was the first to take advantage of this loophole to create 0.2 second bursts of traction control after gearchanges. The interesting thing is that the burst in the above video seems to be longer than 200 ms. Less than 1 second, but more than 200 ms. Perhaps after the 200 ms closed-loop traction control phase there is an open-loop transition phase back to the regular engine map, and this transition has the effect of making the fluttering noise longer than 200 ms.

I made a bit of a guess above, but anyone who wants to claim there is no traction control needs to come up with some kind of plausible explaination for the severe fluttering noise. A statement that Ferrari would not break the rules is not a functional explaination in this regard.

The "fluttering" could be caused by numerous things! It could be something in the recording of sound, with a break down at certain megahertz, or it could be something in the transmission of sound . But as I said, there is NOTHING to prevent Ferrari, or anyone, using TC if they so want, in testing or promo events. But the ECUs are programmed to not allow it. It is nobody's responsibility to prove that Ferrari are not using TC, but it is the responsibilty of the "accusers" to prove they are, and not just to say that "it sounds like...."

Bill is not just saying 'it sounds like' there is a distinct flutter in the exhaust sound exactly after a gear change. It is exactly the sound to be expected from a traction limiting mapping. If anyone believes it is not, then please explain the noise and its precise timing. With modern gearbox shift electronics such a long delay in torque transfer in not needed to achieve shifts at current gearbox shift speeds. I do not like this at all.

[jason.parker.86]

niceee!

[timbo]

It is exactly the sound to be expected from a traction limiting mapping. If anyone believes it is not, then please explain the noise and its precise timing. With modern gearbox shift electronics such a long delay in torque transfer in not needed to achieve shifts at current gearbox shift speeds. I do not like this at all.

Is there a need for a traction limiting at 7th gear?

[ringo]

we have to keep in mind they may never have used it at all this season, but the little test they did here could have been used to test various things including traction control..

..or even a method to save fuel by cutting out the engine intermittently.

[timbo]

we have to keep in mind they may never have used it at all this season, but the little test they did here could have been used to test various things including traction control..

..or even a method to save fuel by cutting out the engine intermittently.

Regardless, anything engine does is managed by ECU.

[autogyro]

It is still easily possible to spin up the rear wheels in 7th gear.
Depends on how narrow Ferrari made their engines available power delivery rpm band when they 'legaly'? updated their pneumatic valve system!
Still, no doubt they will be having rear engine cover fires along with all the others trying to catch RB. Rear tyre fires will be interesting.
So who is going to be the first to blame microphones or something else for Ferrari traction limiting?

[autogyro]

we have to keep in mind they may never have used it at all this season, but the little test they did here could have been used to test various things including traction control..

..or even a method to save fuel by cutting out the engine intermittently.

Regardless, anything engine does is managed by ECU.

And the vehicles own electronic system, dont forget that. The Macca ECU is just one box.

[timbo]

It is still easily possible to spin up the rear wheels in 7th gear.

Really?

PS and why I don't always hear that noise at lowest gears?

[autogyro]

It is still easily possible to spin up the rear wheels in 7th gear.

Really?

PS and why I don't always hear that noise at lowest gears?

Mainly because it depends on where the driver has got his right foot.
At a flapping track like Fiorano the slow corners are well below full throttle, so no noticable traction limiting electronic delay.

[jason.parker.86]

Im sure its legal, Ferrari would not cheat"

[autogyro]

Hahahaha course not

I think they are banking on Charlie Whiting being to vain to wear a deaf aid