European GP 2010 - Valencia

[dannyteasdale]

It's not a big deal, just something of note that happened in the race and I commented on it.

To me it's a lesson for him. He will see himself on a replay, and I am sure Frank doesn't want his drivers freaking out in public, either of them.

Breaking a toe in a rage makes you feel kind silly I would think.

Meh, I like to see people and not robots. As long as they don't endanger anyone else, some theatrics are all in good taste imo. Hakinnen crying made me like him even more for example.[/quote]

I agree with you, komninosm, on this one.
I like seeing the driver have passion, IMO I liked that Hulk did that.
Its not childish at all - We all get angry, just deal with it differently.
You could say that passion has a fine line, now im not syaing what Alonso was doing on the radio was OTT but it could be classed as OTT but it is pure passion.
For another example of how other drivers deal with anger/passion - Hamilton in Spain (Catalunya) obviously disappointed that the tyre failed but he looked so dejected. He could have quite easily got out and start belting the tyre with his foot, but it was how he reacted. And that was how Hulk reacted.
We are all different and thats what makes a discussion - but we are all different in alot of ways, venting anger whilst showing passion is one.

And by the way with Mika - That was funny but its one of the reasons i liked him, frustration is a funny thing. You dont know quite how it will come out until it happens!

[ISLAMATRON]

[...]

[jason.parker.86]

Also, FIA f**ked up Schumachers race.. see below

Ross Brawn believes a mis-application of the safety car rules cost Michael Schumacher a better finish in the European Grand Prix.

Schumacher had to wait at the pit lane exit after taking his pit stop during the safety car period. Brawn said:

As the leaders had not been picked up, Michael was waved through and that gave us a golden opportunity to make his pit stop as our predictions were that the option tyre would hold up for the remainder of the race.

However, when Michael came to exit the pits, the red light was showing which cost him a significant amount of time. In our view, the regulations are clear that the exit light should not go red until the line of cars has formed behind the safety car, and we would like the FIA to look into this. There was no line formed and over 18 seconds between Hamilton and Kobayashi when Michael came in.

It was a good effort from Michael to try and recover from there but ultimately a very frustrating afternoon.
Ross Brawn

Article 40.10 of the Sporting Regulations says:

Whilst the safety car is in operation, competing cars may enter the pit lane, but may only rejoin the track when the green light at the end of the pit lane is on. It will be on at all times except when the safety car and the line of cars following it are about to pass or are passing the pit exit.

[myurr]

Alonso wasnt crying like a baby about playing by the rules when his team mate fixed the race in Singapore so that he won; and also when he brake tested Lewis Hamilton (I think) a few years back... The guy is a idiot and needs to shave his eye brows.

Some of those criticising Hamilton really need to grow up - we're not talking about a life of death lunge past the safety car here, we're talking about being a tenth or so faster or slower past an arbitrary white line in a relatively obscure part of the rules (I've been following F1 since the early 80's and have never come across the exact rules on this white line before). If a car breaks the white line coming out of the pits people don't scream for them to be black flagged, yet this white line is also there for safety reasons.

And this isn't exactly the first incident where the stewards have taken their time in making a decision. Even Alonso has benefitted from this in the past, China this year being just one example. He jumped the start, a dangerous move in itself due to the closing speed with the cars in front, and it took the stewards 5 laps (mostly behind the safety car so easily the equivalent of 7-8 laps in time) to investigate and hand down a penalty. This is for a penalty that should have been automatic as it's flagged by the computers immediately.

The fact that it took the stewards those 5 laps to serve Alonso with his penalty meant that he got to benefit from field spread and did not drop to the very back of the grid as he would have if he'd been penalised on lap 1 whilst the safety car was still out.

To me the whining coming from Alonso and Ferrari show a team under real pressure who under performed badly this weekend. These latest upgrades to their car was supposed to take them back to the front of the grid, yet there are at least two teams quicker than them and by some margin in this race at least. Yes Alonso was unlucky to be caught out by the safety car like that, but it would have been equally unlucky for Hamilton to have been caught back there as well. That he had an infraction with the safety car and served his penalty without losing track position just made him less unlucky than Alonso. He still had to work for that second place, and it cost him a chance to fight for first place.

That he wasn't as unlucky with the safety car as Alonso is not cause for Ferrari to whinge and bitch about him ruining their entire race weekend. To me it looks more like they're looking for a scape goat to cover for a disappointing weekend and an upgrade to their car that they threw all their hopes behind that simply hasn't paid off for them so far. That Red Bull are still significantly ahead and McLaren were quicker even without their major upgrades due in the next race leaves Ferrari's position looking desperate. With Alonso's bad luck with the safety car he can no doubt see his championship hopes slipping away and is instead left petulantly lashing out at an old foe.

[komninosm]

Kubica did a great job fighting off Button. He was first in to the pitstop, but third out. Button is so lucky it's unbelivable! All season! Renault were about to take Petrov in and had to change when Kubica came in first.

Hamilton is a huge cheater, I have no great love for Alonso, but this time he's completely right. What a fake "nice guy face" he has on. How could the decision take 30 min to make? How could it be only a drive thru penalty when overtaking the SC? Is there anything more severe?

So Hamilton was planning to slow down behind the pit lane line, so he could get Alonso angry?
Hamilton clearly did not cheat. He could have simply accelerated and be in the clear.
Those accusing him of slowing Alonso are grasping for straws, Alonso would not have made it.
Calling Hamilton a huge cheater is an overstatement. A huge cheater is one that plans to cheat. No way Hamilton could have pre meditated getting himself a penalty, there was no way he would benefit from braking.
It's becuase he is overly scrutinized why he is aprehensive towards things like this. Normally any driver would have just gone straight and went ahead of the SC there.
this is a very small incident, and alonso is just angry he was overtaken in canada, out qualified and out raced in in hometown.. by the same guy who blow him away in 2007.

Very good post =D>

[Ray]

Hamilton is a huge cheater

How? He looked to me like he wasn't entirely sure if he should pass or stay behind the Safety Car and decided that he could beat the SC to the imaginary line and just barely missed making it. That's not cheating, it's taking a chance and it backfired. I would have done the exact same thing and I don't think he really deserved that penalty. It was a sticky situation and he did what he thought was best. Don't see how that's cheating.

Alonso was whining like a baby because that's the only thing he could do. He couldn't very well pass the SC himself because there was no way he was going to make it cleanly so he started crying like a baby. It's one of those things that's so close it's a crapshoot who will get what out of it. Some get the short end of the stick, that's racing. He needs to quit whining and focus on getting the car better and performing up to his past performances rather than cry about what others are doing.

I think Webber and Kovi was simply a racing incident. Neither looked like they were sure what the other was going to do and Webber looked to be so focused on figuring out what side he should try and pass Heikki on he forgot that the Lotus can't brake like him and nailed him. Stupid mistake? I'm not so sure, it happened so fast I don't think either realized what was going down and BANG! it was all over. I see it a an overload on the tasks both of them were dealing with and those things happen. I'm really impressed with how safe these cars are. It's amazing how quickly Mark was moving and how well he had his wits about him immediately after the car stopped moving. Glad to see he's uninjured and will race again. Sucks to see him go from the highs of almost pulling a hat trick to flipping in this race though. I'm pulling for him over Vettel so I'll admit my bias as far as Red Bull goes right now.

Good race, except for the racing. Track is boring, track has no personality, too wide, camera angles and views suck, no real dicing in the front. The Glock fight was good near the end, seeing Kobayshi get Alonso and Buemi was really cool, seeing Lewis get penalized was pretty bogus, watching Mercedes royally screw Schumacher was good for a laugh, and Vettel screwing up and locking up the front after the Safety Car had me out of my seat. But other than a handful of highlights it was a hohum race as far as racing goes for me. Entertaining though.

[komninosm]

But I'm not asking if Hamilton complained about Vettel at the end. I'm asking if he apologized like some people claimed. Why the run around people? Just give a proper source or admit you made it up. Can I get a straight answer please and not another run-around?

What if he didn't? And what conclusion could be drawn from it?

He doesn't have to apologize. Vettel didn't apologize for taking out his own teammate in turkey.

Hmm, I guess I'm just curious, because some people claim he did, and while I don't doubt them, I asked for sources and so far I'm being given the run around for some reason. Personally I think it was a racing incident, no one's fault. Hamilton was optimistic, but not too optimistic (no breaking of rules), Vettel was a bit pushy, but after the contact his car was unstable and his maneuver is excused (no breaking of rules either).
BTW did anyone post the vid about the Hamilton-Vettel bump yet? Or only the pics I saw a few pages ago?

[myurr]

Hamilton is a huge cheater

How? He looked to me like he wasn't entirely sure if he should pass or stay behind the Safety Car and decided that he could beat the SC to the imaginary line and just barely missed making it. That's not cheating, it's taking a chance and it backfired. I would have done the exact same thing and I don't think he really deserved that penalty. It was a sticky situation and he did what he thought was best. Don't see how that's cheating.

Not only that but Alonso doesn't claim that Hamilton slowed him down. His big gripe is that he passed the safety car full stop - so it would appear that he doesn't know the rules very well as Hamilton only missed passing the safety car legitimately by a couple of metres - it certainly looked a lot less than a cars length on TV.

This is all just sour grapes from a disappointed driver in an under-performing team who have realised the championship is slipping away from them and wish to do all they can to hold back the championship leader.

[djos]

If you want definitive confirmation as to why Mark Webber is no good and why he's had a lot of DNFs in his career, we've just had it. He is a lucky boy to get a contract for next year with drivers like Kubica, Heidfeld and Raikkonen available.

Webber could have just choose to turn right before Kov slowed down for the corner, but no... He chose to follow Kov and when Kov slowed for the corner, Webber was too close to react. This could easily been avoided had Webber chosen not to follow and just turn on the opposite direction which leads to an easy overtake.

You two need to grow up - Webber said afterwards that Heiki braked 80 meters earlier than normal, in F1 that is massive!! Heiki should not have even bothered trying to defend his position against mark and if his team if they had a clue would have told him to get out of the way, this was not Monaco where there is no overtaking!

[komninosm]

Also, FIA f**ked up Schumachers race.. see below

Ross Brawn believes a mis-application of the safety car rules cost Michael Schumacher a better finish in the European Grand Prix.

Schumacher had to wait at the pit lane exit after taking his pit stop during the safety car period. Brawn said:

As the leaders had not been picked up, Michael was waved through and that gave us a golden opportunity to make his pit stop as our predictions were that the option tyre would hold up for the remainder of the race.

However, when Michael came to exit the pits, the red light was showing which cost him a significant amount of time. In our view, the regulations are clear that the exit light should not go red until the line of cars has formed behind the safety car, and we would like the FIA to look into this. There was no line formed and over 18 seconds between Hamilton and Kobayashi when Michael came in.

It was a good effort from Michael to try and recover from there but ultimately a very frustrating afternoon.
Ross Brawn

Article 40.10 of the Sporting Regulations says:

Whilst the safety car is in operation, competing cars may enter the pit lane, but may only rejoin the track when the green light at the end of the pit lane is on. It will be on at all times except when the safety car and the line of cars following it are about to pass or are passing the pit exit.

Wait, Michael was waved through? By the safety car? Where were the Ferraris then? I'm confused

[dannyteasdale]

Alonso wasnt crying like a baby about playing by the rules when his team mate fixed the race in Singapore so that he won; and also when he brake tested Lewis Hamilton (I think) a few years back... The guy is a idiot and needs to shave his eye brows.

Some of those criticising Hamilton really need to grow up - we're not talking about a life of death lunge past the safety car here, we're talking about being a tenth or so faster or slower past an arbitrary white line in a relatively obscure part of the rules (I've been following F1 since the early 80's and have never come across the exact rules on this white line before). If a car breaks the white line coming out of the pits people don't scream for them to be black flagged, yet this white line is also there for safety reasons.

And this isn't exactly the first incident where the stewards have taken their time in making a decision. Even Alonso has benefitted from this in the past, China this year being just one example. He jumped the start, a dangerous move in itself due to the closing speed with the cars in front, and it took the stewards 5 laps (mostly behind the safety car so easily the equivalent of 7-8 laps in time) to investigate and hand down a penalty. This is for a penalty that should have been automatic as it's flagged by the computers immediately.

The fact that it took the stewards those 5 laps to serve Alonso with his penalty meant that he got to benefit from field spread and did not drop to the very back of the grid as he would have if he'd been penalised on lap 1 whilst the safety car was still out.

To me the whining coming from Alonso and Ferrari show a team under real pressure who under performed badly this weekend. These latest upgrades to their car was supposed to take them back to the front of the grid, yet there are at least two teams quicker than them and by some margin in this race at least. Yes Alonso was unlucky to be caught out by the safety car like that, but it would have been equally unlucky for Hamilton to have been caught back there as well. That he had an infraction with the safety car and served his penalty without losing track position just made him less unlucky than Alonso. He still had to work for that second place, and it cost him a chance to fight for first place.

That he wasn't as unlucky with the safety car as Alonso is not cause for Ferrari to whinge and bitch about him ruining their entire race weekend. To me it looks more like they're looking for a scape goat to cover for a disappointing weekend and an upgrade to their car that they threw all their hopes behind that simply hasn't paid off for them so far. That Red Bull are still significantly ahead and McLaren were quicker even without their major upgrades due in the next race leaves Ferrari's position looking desperate. With Alonso's bad luck with the safety car he can no doubt see his championship hopes slipping away and is instead left petulantly lashing out at an old foe.

Very, very good way of putting it. Agreed to the highest degree

[Ray]

Also, FIA f**ked up Schumachers race.. see below

Ross Brawn believes a mis-application of the safety car rules cost Michael Schumacher a better finish in the European Grand Prix.

Schumacher had to wait at the pit lane exit after taking his pit stop during the safety car period. Brawn said:

As the leaders had not been picked up, Michael was waved through and that gave us a golden opportunity to make his pit stop as our predictions were that the option tyre would hold up for the remainder of the race.

However, when Michael came to exit the pits, the red light was showing which cost him a significant amount of time. In our view, the regulations are clear that the exit light should not go red until the line of cars has formed behind the safety car, and we would like the FIA to look into this. There was no line formed and over 18 seconds between Hamilton and Kobayashi when Michael came in.

It was a good effort from Michael to try and recover from there but ultimately a very frustrating afternoon.
Ross Brawn

Article 40.10 of the Sporting Regulations says:

Whilst the safety car is in operation, competing cars may enter the pit lane, but may only rejoin the track when the green light at the end of the pit lane is on. It will be on at all times except when the safety car and the line of cars following it are about to pass or are passing the pit exit.

Looked to me as soon as he hit his pitbox the whole field went by. At least as far as what FOX was showing in their coverage. No cars were going by when he entered pit lane and then when he was dropped off the jacks the field just started to go by pit exit. Looks to me like they made a bad call and are trying to make excuses for it again.

[ISLAMATRON]

Wait, Michael was waved through? By the safety car? Where were the Ferraris then? I'm confused

Dont you know senior citizens are allways given a waive by the SC?

actually thats a good catch... so why was he waived by and not the SF cars

[andartop]

Verifying on track position of a competitor relative to the SC and SC lines should be very quickly and easily done automatic as well, no?

[myurr]

Looked to me as soon as he hit his pitbox the whole field went by. At least as far as what FOX was showing in their coverage. No cars were going by when he entered pit lane and then when he was dropped off the jacks the field just started to go by pit exit. Looks to me like they made a bad call and are trying to make excuses for it again.

I dislike MSc quite a lot, but to be fair to him he reached the end of the pit lane just as the first in a long line of cars got there. Had the light been green then he would have come out somewhere around that car, which I guess would have put him inside the top 10 instead of near the back.

Have no idea or opinion at the moment, though, on whether the FIA applied the rules correctly. If they didn't then it did cost him heavily.