Mclaren Mercedes MP4-25

[siskue2005]

Are the little wings under the wheel hubs new?

yes.....those types of wings are seen in f1 since 2004 ( first on Ferrari if i remember correctly )

[jason.parker.86]

Do they aid in downforce or just redirect air flow under the car?

[Just_a_fan]

Do they aid in downforce or just redirect air flow under the car?

Some versions add a little direct d/f, some versions just direct air e.g. helping to fill the wake behind the front tyre. Some do both, some act as vortex generators. All have the effect of improving overall performance. These ones are probably doing three things: helping improve the front wing's performance, helping to improve flow around the front tyre, helping improve air flow to the underfloor.

[jason.parker.86]

I think McLaren should walk away from this race with a HUGE smile on their face. They had a real shot at being first, and although I understand this is a car development thread; I think that McLaren should be in no hurry to bring out this Exhaust Blown Diffuser.

Their car is proving to be HUGELY reliable, and lets not forget that Hamilton was setting fastest laps left right and centre with a broken front wing! I think had he not delayed to overtake the SC, he could have forced vettel into crashing or breaking down.

[Newms]

Their car is proving to be HUGELY reliable, and lets not forget that Hamilton was setting fastest laps left right and centre with a broken front wing! I think had he not delayed to overtake the SC, he could have forced vettel into crashing or breaking down.

Hamilton had his front wing replaced during the safety car pit stop period. Prior to that Alonso was the fastest man on track. Alot of teams introduced new parts, so in Silverstone expect them to be alot better now they have some miles/knowledge on them. McLaren cant afford to not introduce the BDD

[jason.parker.86]

No I do not think Alonso was quicker than Hammy before the SC; he was pulling away even though he was told to conserve fuel on setting 4! Ok he was not pulling away at 1sec per lap, but none the less Alonso was not even close to think about making a move! Further more, Hamilton murdered him in qualifying!

[ringo]

Alonso was biding his time. He was told to follow hamilton and wait.
Ferrari saw that the F10 has the pace.

Mclaren need their update in silverstone if they want to stand a chance against the f10 and rb6 there. Even the FI could be a problem with thier new exhaust. Williams also seem to be on the rise as well.

[jason.parker.86]

Alonso was biding his time. He was told to follow hamilton and wait.
Ferrari saw that the F10 has the pace.

Mclaren need their update in silverstone if they want to stand a chance against the f10 and rb6 there. Even the FI could be a problem with thier new exhaust. Williams also seem to be on the rise as well.

Im sorry but I do not agree with the above? McLaren was also biding time for a last min push against the Red Bull. Their is no way Alonso would NOT attack Hamilton even if Luca was asking him not to! The Ferrari gained about 0.2s in terms of development.

Either way this is a McLaren thread and I dont want to go into slagging off Ferrari, but I think that McLaren should be very careful of rushing out upgrades because they clearly have enough of an advantage without them.

I think they should forget the upgrades and just let Mark Webber take out half the field.

[ringo]

I'll put these time gaps here, since it's relevant to the pace of the car. This is for valencia; the first 10 laps. Unfortunately the SC meant Alonso was not able to focus on his race and he was in traffic, so we can only use the first 10 laps to really get an idea of the pace. The cars are heavy so it reflects well on the overall performance of the cars. These are the gaps. The time data are in the race thread.

button Alonso_____hamilton alonso
0.02______________-0.01
0.419______________-0.708
1.146______________-0.187
-0.098_____________-0.59
0.943______________0.04
0.849______________0.364
0.692______________0.221
0.6________________0.33
16.997_____________0.197

Alonso is mostly faster than button here, even though button was racing kubica and webber in the first lap. Looking on the gap to hamilton, Alonso is faster from lap 5 till the accident; Hamilton's wing was broken as well.

The ferrari is not slower than the Mclaren and the new diffuser system may be more developed for the next race.
I think the f10 was the quicker car here, taking into account Button to Alonso's pace. Hamilton was still faster with the broken wing and then he slowed, so his times are not a good base, his driving is also exceptional at low fuel since he gets up to speed quickly.

Mclaren can't be complacent, they need the update at silverstone. Ferrari are yet to stretch the new f10s legs for us to write them off. And i am not even a ferrari fan, but those opening laps seemed convincing to me that mclaren will have a tough race in silverstone if the update does not bring the gains.

[myurr]

I'll put these time gaps here, since it's relevant to the pace of the car. This is for valencia; the first 10 laps. Unfortunately the SC meant Alonso was not able to focus on his race and he was in traffic, so we can only use the first 10 laps to really get an idea of the pace. The cars are heavy so it reflects well on the overall performance of the cars. These are the gaps. The time data are in the race thread.

button Alonso_____hamilton alonso
0.02______________-0.01
0.419______________-0.708
1.146______________-0.187
-0.098_____________-0.59
0.943______________0.04
0.849______________0.364
0.692______________0.221
0.6________________0.33
16.997_____________0.197

Alonso is mostly faster than button here, even though button was racing kubica and webber in the first lap. Looking on the gap to hamilton, Alonso is faster from lap 5 till the accident; Hamilton's wing was broken as well.

The ferrari is not slower than the Mclaren and the new diffuser system may be more developed for the next race.
I think the f10 was the quicker car here, taking into account Button to Alonso's pace. Hamilton was still faster with the broken wing and then he slowed, so his times are not a good base, his driving is also exceptional at low fuel since he gets up to speed quickly.

Mclaren can't be complacent, they need the update at silverstone. Ferrari are yet to stretch the new f10s legs for us to write them off. And i am not even a ferrari fan, but those opening laps seemed convincing to me that mclaren will have a tough race in silverstone if the update does not bring the gains.

And the comparison between Button and Massa? Or does that not give the result you want?

Regardless of that comparison you cannot compare the two cars for only the opening 10 laps - field spread and traffic have to be taken into account, and one of the McLarens was damaged making comparison meaningless.

The Ferrari looked good in Q1 and Q2 but was suddenly nowhere in Q3 (relatively) when McLaren and Red Bull really stepped up to the plate. In the race Alonso had good pace in the opening stint behind a damaged McLaren but then made little impression on the hard tyres in the second stint. He admitted that the car didn't work well in the second stint. Let's not forget that he only made it past one car and that he was unable to defend against the Sauber at the end of the race - admittedly Koby had new tyres which provided him with a large advantage, but at that stage of the race the McLaren was setting faster laps than the Sauber so if Alonso really had good pace on the hard tyres he should have been able to defend.

Back on to the subject of the thread, Silverstone is hugely important for McLaren but not make or break. We've seen Mercedes and Ferrari both release their massive updates that were supposed to take both cars back to the front - Ferrari got closer but not close enough and Mercedes seemed to go backwards which was hopefully just an anomalous result .

With this update McLaren must hope to challenge Red Bull at Silverstone. If they can at least run them close then they have a good chance of beating them throughout the rest of the year. However it may take them a couple of races to fine tune their new exhaust system and truly get the most from it - which is why I don't think it's completely make or break for them at this race.

[jason.parker.86]

Out of interest; where would McLaren get its exhausts from? Mercedes or home made? I find it strange the Mercedes had the exhausts before McLaren.

I think that the last few years, McLaren have really raised their game in terms of R&D and other teams need to really take note. McLarens ability to catch up mid-season is really good; however I do worry that they should concentrate more on getting a good car out of the box from day 1!

If it was not for the fact that Webber seems to crash into every other driver, McLaren would be 2nd in the WDC and find it difficult to catch up.

One thing I do notice is that since Mercedes and McLaren announced they was to part ways; they seem to be taking ALOT more risks and certainly thinking outside the box alot more.

On another note, I wonder if McLaren will continue with Mercedes engines from 2012 (i think that is when the engine contract expires) and beyond? Honda / BMW could be posible replacements?

[marcush.]

Out of interest; where would McLaren get its exhausts from? Mercedes or home made? I find it strange the Mercedes had the exhausts before McLaren.

I think that the last few years, McLaren have really raised their game in terms of R&D and other teams need to really take note. McLarens ability to catch up mid-season is really good; however I do worry that they should concentrate more on getting a good car out of the box from day 1!

If it was not for the fact that Webber seems to crash into every other driver, McLaren would be 2nd in the WDC and find it difficult to catch up.

One thing I do notice is that since Mercedes and McLaren announced they was to part ways; they seem to be taking ALOT more risks and certainly thinking outside the box alot more.

On another note, I wonder if McLaren will continue with Mercedes engines from 2012 (i think that is when the engine contract expires) and beyond? Honda / BMW could be posible replacements?

obviously the exhaust systems are different and quite significantly ,as Mclaren even used oval crossection tubing and diamond shaped arrangement of primary pipes to get denser packaging in this crucial area.Compared to this Mercs exhaust look
rather ordinary ,so no wonder they are quicker in producing modified parts.
with recource cap I wonder how teams like mclaren will handle this ..step back in number of upgrades or less detailing ? ..
Imagine back in the 80s it took them years from mp4/1to mp4/4 with 2 engine supplier changes and all before a really new car was laid out.....

[TheRMVR]

What about Silverstone and the MP4/25? Will their F-duct be as valuable there as it was in Montreal and Valencia?
I feel like they might end up behind the Ferraris in Silverstone if the F-duct isn't as valuable here as it was in the last two races.

[wesley123]

I think that the last few years, McLaren have really raised their game in terms of R&D and other teams need to really take note. McLarens ability to catch up mid-season is really good; however I do worry that they should concentrate more on getting a good car out of the box from day 1!

From the firast race you dont need an really fast car, other teams will still tend to make mistake and no team will get the max out of their cars.

What McLaren strength is is development in season, if you decide to bring up a great car but wich canot have that much development you actually shoot yourself in the foot, and you will fall back really quick, a great example is ferrari and mercedes, both are way behind now and will be playing catch up- all year with the 2 best Developpers in f1 these days.

[ell66]

What about Silverstone and the MP4/25? Will their F-duct be as valuable there as it was in Montreal and Valencia?
I feel like they might end up behind the Ferraris in Silverstone if the F-duct isn't as valuable here as it was in the last two races.

the f-duct will be extremely valuable at silverstone jsut like it was in turkey whoch has some similar track characterristics.
i expect them to run more wing whilst still keeping a competeitve staight line advantage. this should also help there tyre manangement as it did in cananda.