German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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ajams
ajams
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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Goran2812 wrote:how can they force him to tell anything?
torture?

Goran2812
Goran2812
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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tommylommykins wrote:goran: Massa has an incentive to keep his own job. So he will say whatever he needs to say, so long as it helps him keep his job.

I think it would not reflect well on the FIA if the matter was not pursued because Massa said he moved over of his own free will, or that he made a mistake...
oh... you meant ferrari :D
i taought you said that FIA can make him talk... :)
agree with you... he'll say what they tell him to say for sure...

"Horner: The clearest team order I’ve ever seen"
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ajams
ajams
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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There is a question of how 'team orders' are defined. If Massa has made an agreement with Ferrari that Alonso is number one driver, does that contravene the 'team orders'rule?

ajams
ajams
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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...and Horner's got some gall to start criticising other teams for favouring one driver over another...

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Shrieker
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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I really would've prefered the Ferrari guys fighting it all out. Mclaren did it here in İstanbul.

They could've told Alonso to push maximum to overtake Massa. And could've told both of them not to crash. It could've worked out ok.

Or could've ended up in tears like the way it happened to Vettel and Webber in İstanbul.

What they did was completely against the rules. I doubt anyone can object that. What makes it worse is Alonso and the whole team crying in Valencia shouting that the race was "manipulated". This is called manipulation, not that.

But despite all that, I hope they don't get a serious penalty. The Ferrari guys closing down the deficit is good for the title race & excitement. But a reprimand / warning / $ fine should definitely be on the cards. The FIA should also make it VERY clear that even attempting such a thing in the future -be it Ferrari or any other team- will be penalised severely.

ajams wrote:
Goran2812 wrote:how can they force him to tell anything?
torture?
LOL :P

ParanoiD wrote:and to cool the debate,here is from the twitter account of Virgin Racing
VirginRacing

Lucas says he was laughing at the start - because YAM started with the pitlane limiter on :-)
Haha priceless :lol:
Last edited by Shrieker on 25 Jul 2010, 16:52, edited 4 times in total.
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Gonner
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
Gonner wrote:I don't understand how they can ask Massa and Domenicali instead of looking at telemetry.

Did they ask Hamilton in Spa in 2008.

No, they looked at the telemetry and decided that Hamilton had gained an advantage, even if he had let Kimi in front.

Why don't they do it here. The same thing would have happened between the RB pilots or the Macca pilots, CryBaby Alonso would be all over the place with " Talk to Charlie, leave me alone, Life's Unfair "
Having a pop at Alonso isnt really constructive.
Whats he to do? Stay behind Massa? This rests squarely with Ferrari hierarchy.
Agreed, I'm a little too harsh on Alonso.

But he's the one that said " this is ridiculous " when he fought against Massa, and he is the one that has asked several times Ferrari to let him pass Massa.

Ferrari couldn't handle his permanent pressure, and gave him the lead, but had his engineer asked him to stay calm, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

myurr
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Having a pop at Alonso isnt really constructive.
Whats he to do? Stay behind Massa? This rests squarely with Ferrari hierarchy.
Alonso was on the radio saying the situation was ridiculous - ie. get me past.

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ParanoiD
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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breaking news : Ferrari team manager and team principal has been summoned by the stewards

http://bit.ly/9B7oAz

more news later as it happens

you all better PRAY!
:D
Ay Carumba!

Goran2812
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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what would have happened if the team let them race it out?
i don't think it would have enged badly... guys?
they were on a similar pace the entire race and alonso was 0,8 behind him
when he was told that alonso is faster...
this could have been dealt in a very different way...
ferrari made a fool of them selfs again... chaos!
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WhiteBlue
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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Both Smedley and Massa did everything they could to get Ferrari into trouble for this team order advantaging Alonso. Smedley could not have been any more obvious in his radio calls and Massa also made the deliberate slow down obvious.

To me this indicates that they were both royally pissed off and wanted to demonstrate that to the world. Still if Massa eventually gives testimony that he agreed with swapping race positions Ferrari may get away with it. The whole thing is very political and difficult to predict.
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ajams
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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WhiteBlue wrote:Both Smedley and Massa did everything they could to get Ferrari into trouble for this team order advantaging Alonso. Smedley could not have been any more obvious in his radio calls and Massa also made the deliberate slow down obvious.

To me this indicates that they were both royally pissed off and wanted to demonstrate that to the world. Still if Massa eventually gives testimony that he agreed with swapping race positions Ferrari may get away with it. The whole thing is very political and difficult to predict.
Exactly - there is no rule preventing Massa from choosing to let Alonso past out of his own "free will"...

That said, with the way Ferrari have been incurring the wrath of the stewards recently I wouldn't be surprised if they don't get away with this.

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ringo
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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Alonso is not to blame, neither is Smedley. It's the big guys on top.
Smedley was truly sorry. Poor Massa :cry:

He showed that he was just as fast as Aonso today, he figured out the tyres and was back on his 2008 form, there was no reason for him to give up that place.
He has a right to be WDC just as anyone else. Ferrari showed him today that they own him and he can't win over Alonso.. ever.
I respect how he loves the team, almost more than himself, but sometimes you have to wonder if this is some kind of stockholm syndrome. He's been in ferrari so long now, he's like a slave to them. He believes he would not be driving for them after his accident and by the grace of ferrari he is still in the sport. So he simply says Alonso passed him, and that's that.

Massa is a strong guy emotionally, more deserving of a Championship than Alonso, especially after watching that painful press conference.

He owes them no favors after this. From now on he should race for himself!
For Sure!!

Goran2812
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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yeah,the press conference was really really hard to watch...
I wonder what would happen if massa was to go rogue on them and didn't listen to their instructions...
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ben_watkins
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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no question, Ferrari cheated. Team orders are banned and so should both their cars be from the result of this race. period
BWP
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Ganxxta
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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WhiteBlue wrote:Both Smedley and Massa did everything they could to get Ferrari into trouble for this team order advantaging Alonso. Smedley could not have been any more obvious in his radio calls and Massa also made the deliberate slow down obvious.

To me this indicates that they were both royally pissed off and wanted to demonstrate that to the world. Still if Massa eventually gives testimony that he agreed with swapping race positions Ferrari may get away with it. The whole thing is very political and difficult to predict.
So you think its Massas fault? :lol:

Well great race and really great job by Massa, he deserved to win.
To say "You saw it, there is nothing more to say" is so clear that it wasn't his idea to let Alonso pass in his own free will.

Well i hope Ferrari will at least lose their Championship points of this race.