German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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myurr wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Having a pop at Alonso isnt really constructive.
Whats he to do? Stay behind Massa? This rests squarely with Ferrari hierarchy.
Alonso was on the radio saying the situation was ridiculous - ie. get me past.
Nothing new in that. I bet every team mate has radio'd in with a message to that effect too.
The problem here was Ferrari "ordered" Massa out the way. Coded message or whichever way you want to call it. Alonso and Massa are drivers, they dont decide these things.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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ringo
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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WhiteBlue wrote:Both Smedley and Massa did everything they could to get Ferrari into trouble for this team order advantaging Alonso. Smedley could not have been any more obvious in his radio calls and Massa also made the deliberate slow down obvious.

To me this indicates that they were both royally pissed off and wanted to demonstrate that to the world. Still if Massa eventually gives testimony that he agreed with swapping race positions Ferrari may get away with it. The whole thing is very political and difficult to predict.
Notice your quiet about your boy Vettel. Anyway we can get back to that after the Ferrari discussion. :wink:

I agree that race fixing cannot be proven. Massa was not directly ordered to give back the place. He was signalled that one driver was faster than him. That is no different than redbull telling webber there is a four second gap to button, or any other message given to any other driver about the race. It's up to the driver to decide how to manage the situation. Massa never had to give the place, but he chose to, so it's difficult to prove that this move was fixed like Singapore 2008.
For Sure!!

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siskue2005
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:
myurr wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Having a pop at Alonso isnt really constructive.
Whats he to do? Stay behind Massa? This rests squarely with Ferrari hierarchy.
Alonso was on the radio saying the situation was ridiculous - ie. get me past.
Nothing new in that. I bet every team mate has radio'd in with a message to that effect too.
The problem here was Ferrari "ordered" Massa out the way. Coded message or whichever way you want to call it. Alonso and Massa are drivers, they dont decide these things.
how can people be so Naive and think Alonso has nothing to do with this :?

timbo
timbo
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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siskue2005 wrote: how can people be so Naive and think Alonso has nothing to do with this :?
Thing is, he was faster. In Austria 2001 and 2002 it was other way around.

manchild
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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Massa confessed it was not his own free will!

"I am very professional and I show in my career how professional I am. You are professional as well, you work for your company, you are doing what you have to do, I am professional and today I showed how professional I am."

Luca's TV - I already feel sad for your screen :mrgreen:

fenix4life
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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timbo wrote:
siskue2005 wrote: how can people be so Naive and think Alonso has nothing to do with this :?
Thing is, he was faster. In Austria 2001 and 2002 it was other way around.
As he also was a couple of races ago and still was not able to pass Massa.
Without the help he would never have been able to pass him.

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ringo
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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Ganxxta wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:Both Smedley and Massa did everything they could to get Ferrari into trouble for this team order advantaging Alonso. Smedley could not have been any more obvious in his radio calls and Massa also made the deliberate slow down obvious.

To me this indicates that they were both royally pissed off and wanted to demonstrate that to the world. Still if Massa eventually gives testimony that he agreed with swapping race positions Ferrari may get away with it. The whole thing is very political and difficult to predict.
So you think its Massas fault? :lol:

Well great race and really great job by Massa, he deserved to win.
To say "You saw it, there is nothing more to say" is so clear that it wasn't his idea to let Alonso pass in his own free will.

Well i hope Ferrari will at least lose their Championship points of this race.
I want them to keep the points. They had too many bad weekends.
If only Massa just came first i would be more happy about the ferrari turn around.

But it's one thing i rate about Hamilton, he wouldn't take that place. He would rather fight for it.
Alonso should have radioed in and signal them "no Massa is faster", to keep the race going.
Last week he said he wants to win on his own merit; now he goes back on his word.
For Sure!!

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siskue2005
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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timbo wrote:
siskue2005 wrote: how can people be so Naive and think Alonso has nothing to do with this :?
Thing is, he was faster. In Austria 2001 and 2002 it was other way around.
Alonso was not SIGNIFICANTLY faster than Massa
If so why did he need team orders?

Massa was doing faster laps and matching Alonso through out the race

Goran2812
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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and here we go...
Alonso probably just said he was faster and to let him past...
the TEAM decided what to do... they DIDN'T HAVE TO listen to what
alonso said... They could have made it difficult for him and told
him to race it out with Felipe! But we all know that those situations
often don't end up well!
and when Felipe slowed down,what was he suppoused to do? Slow down
with him and let Vettel steam ahead? I don't think so...
Visit my photo page! -> http://www.gorankphoto.com/formula1

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siskue2005
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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RedBullF1Spy: "Fernando asked in the press conference if this win ranks up there with his victory at Singapore in 2008. Ouch!" :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by siskue2005 on 25 Jul 2010, 17:08, edited 2 times in total.

tommylommykins
tommylommykins
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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hmm, yes, we're getiing into a shouting match here, namecalling on drivers and all that...

Any chance we can stay civil?

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siskue2005
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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Goran2812 wrote:and here we go...
Alonso probably just said he was faster and to let him past...
the TEAM decided what to do... they DIDN'T HAVE TO listen to what
alonso said... They could have made it difficult for him and told
him to race it out with Felipe! But we all know that those situations
often don't end up well!
and when Felipe slowed down,what was he suppoused to do? Slow down
with him and let Vettel steam ahead? I don't think so...
Alonso clean as whistle all the time, like Singapore 2008, Spygate :roll:

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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siskue2005 wrote: how can people be so Naive and think Alonso has nothing to do with this :?
Alonso cannot decide anything by himself.Ferrari are the ones with the final say, and they could have avoided this, but chose not to.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Goran2812
Goran2812
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Location: Germany, BW

Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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siskue2005 wrote:
Goran2812 wrote:and here we go...
Alonso probably just said he was faster and to let him past...
the TEAM decided what to do... they DIDN'T HAVE TO listen to what
alonso said... They could have made it difficult for him and told
him to race it out with Felipe! But we all know that those situations
often don't end up well!
and when Felipe slowed down,what was he suppoused to do? Slow down
with him and let Vettel steam ahead? I don't think so...
Alonso clean as whistle all the time, like Singapore 2008, Spygate :roll:
nope,not saying he's clean as whistle, but is not the on to be bashed around all the time...
Visit my photo page! -> http://www.gorankphoto.com/formula1

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

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siskue2005 wrote:
Goran2812 wrote:and here we go...
Alonso probably just said he was faster and to let him past...
the TEAM decided what to do... they DIDN'T HAVE TO listen to what
alonso said... They could have made it difficult for him and told
him to race it out with Felipe! But we all know that those situations
often don't end up well!
and when Felipe slowed down,what was he suppoused to do? Slow down
with him and let Vettel steam ahead? I don't think so...
Alonso clean as whistle all the time, like Singapore 2008, Spygate :roll:
I wonder if Alonso threatened anyone in the team much like he blackmailed Dennis in 2007. Definitely a possibility. Or the existence of Santander top brass -as godlameroso pointed out- could've solved that.
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