German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

[kalinka]

2005 Canada :

Alonso to team : Once more I'm right to him, what more I have to do ?
Team : We understand, we know you're quicker. Overtake him.

At least Renault was more correct , and a little sarcastic when they told him to overtake. They didn't tell nothing to Fisi, just for Alonso : Yes? You are really there ? You're quicker ? Ok, so OVERTAKE him if you can. But it shows that for Alonso it's quite normal to complain about these things, and he did it even back in 2005. It's up to the team how they respond to this. Obviously at Mcl thet didn't want to cooperate, but Alonso tried again in Ferrari...and they listened to him. Sad but true.

Sorry for poor quality, didn't find better >

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9IDH6CUBMU[/youtube]

[forty-two]

What a swizz!

Once more, Ferrari treat the fans as though they were idiots. Did they think nobody would notice?

I think Ferrari should receive 0 WCC points this race and BOTH drivers disqualified. Why punish Massa? because he "apparently" made the decision to carry out an illegal team order. An example needs to be made of the team (including drivers) to let others in the paddock know that this will not be tolarated.

[myurr]

For me the whole thing being a team order is fairly easy to prove - when giving the first message Rob Smedley tells Massa to let Alonso past and then follows up asking him to 'confirm that he understands.' This is clearly not an informational message as Ferrari are now claiming as the driver would not confirm that he understands something like that.

I'm sure looking at the full telemetry it would be a relatively rare event for the driver to have to confirm, used for things like pit stops and other items that require a driver to perform an action. I would be gob smacked if it was ever used for messages such as 'There are twenty laps remaining Filipe, can you confirm you understand.' I would also expect it to be mostly automatic - for example on the McLaren website it's often quoted as simple "Lewis, box this lap' to which he would reply 'box this lap.'

[skdevries]

Ferrari has been fined $100,000 (£65,000) by Formula 1 governing body the FIA for the use of team orders and bringing the sport into disrepute at Hockenheim on Sunday afternoon. However, the results of the race – Fernando Alonso winning from Felipe Massa – remain unchanged.

Quite a quick response from the the FIA on what happened. And a correct one. Alonso, Massa and Smedley are not to blame.

And who to pay? Maybe the boss of Santander?

[Caerdroia]

Ferrari has been fined $100,000 (£65,000) by Formula 1 governing body the FIA for the use of team orders and bringing the sport into disrepute at Hockenheim on Sunday afternoon. However, the results of the race – Fernando Alonso winning from Felipe Massa – remain unchanged.

Quite a quick response from the the FIA on what happened. And a correct one. Alonso, Massa and Smedley are not to blame.

And who to pay? Maybe the boss of Santander?

It's also been referred to the WMSC to decide if any other action needs to be taken.

[myurr]

I believe the result will be allowed to stand, but that Ferrari will face further sanction - maybe losing constructors points or facing a suspended disqualification.

Right decision so far and hopefully it sends out a clear message.

[andrew]

What an absolute disgrace that was, I am ruddy furious! Massa drove a far better race and fully desreved the win. I particularly liked Rob Smedley's radio transmissions - nice, clear and obvious. Now code or anything, and the "Sorry" was a nice touch. He sounded genuinely gutted and embarrassed.

In some ways, Ferrari's choosing to do this is obvious - Spanish title sponsor and Spanish driver. But unlike in the past, they are not at the top of the championship. The team scored the same amount of constructors points. Whilst there is the impact on the drivers championship, I can't see a Ferrari driver winning come the end of the season.

Unfortunately until the FIA step in and really sit on the teams shoulders monitoring everything, this sort of thing will continue to happen. All the teams have done it in the past, are doing it this season and will continue to do it in the future.

I thought Massa's comments in the post race interview were very telling. The poor guy looked quite rightly hacked off. Massa has to be one of the biggest team players in the grid and has had to come off second best in the past, but never have I seen an interview with Massa where he looked that angry.

I look at it very simply. If Alonso was fast enough to get past Massa then he should have overtaken him on the track without any assistance. I didn't see such a pass therefore as far as I am concerned Massa won.

[Predator]

I believe the result will be allowed to stand, but that Ferrari will face further sanction - maybe losing constructors points or facing a suspended disqualification.

Right decision so far and hopefully it sends out a clear message.

I don't think it does send out a clear message. So if another team decides to do exactly the same, all they can expect is a petty fine? Seems fine to me as long as they have their ideal driver winning a race, no? Will be interesting to see what the WMSC decide...

[ParanoiD]

source : http://bit.ly/9WLZgC

Let's see where it leads

The FIA has announced that its World Motor Sport Council is to consider whether Ferrari should face further sanctions for the team orders controversy at the German Grand Prix, after the team was fined $100,000 for its actions.

Fernando Alonso was handed victory at Hockenheim after his Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa sacrificed the lead on lap 48 - soon after the team had told the Brazilian that he was slower than the car behind him.

Although Ferrari has insisted that it did not issue a team order, and merely provided Massa with information, the race stewards after the German GP had a different opinion.

After speaking to team principal Stefano Domenicali, team manager Massimo Rivola, plus Alonso and Massa to examine the events of the afternoon, the race stewards decided that the regulations had been broken.

In a statement issued on Sunday night, the FIA stated that a breach of Article 39.1, which bans team orders, and 151c, which relates to bringing the sport into disrepute, had been committed.

It said that the penalty would be: "Fine $100,000. The case will also be referred to the FIA World Motorsport Council for further consideration."

Alonso said after the race that the drivers were both simply what is best for the team.

"We tried to do our race, we tried to do as good as we can," said Alonso, who scored his second win of the year. "We are professional drivers and we try to work as a team and we try to do the best we can every day."

[gcdugas]

Am I the only one who sees the irony of having Jean Todt's admin have to deal with this? $100,000 fine (and a later WMSC ruling)... hmmm.

Truly there is no way to unscramble an egg.

[WhiteBlue]

Good that we have a verdict of guilty at last. Massa must have made his point with the stewards.

[andrew]

I think that 1st and 2nd places should be reversed or Alonso's result is disallowed. The team gets points from Massa's finish, Massa gets the win but they get nothing for Alonso. I think that is a lot fairer and will hurt the team more that a $100,000 fine which will be like pocket money to a team teh size of Ferrari.

[sstanescu]

Normally "team orders ban" shall be removed, since otherwise manufacturer championship does not makes sense. Everybody is angry on this since is so uncommon and so obvious made. But in my opinion, team orders in F1 (or any other formula) shall be allowed. I would not waste my and sponsor's money only to discover at the end of championship that I have blew it for couple of points. It will be difficult to manage internally (see Vetel vs Webber), but that's the job of the team.

Coming back, the second stint started bad for Massa, sliding a lot and clearly holding Alonso. In the normal world, this would have been a clear call to unlock Alonso maximising chances to victory. With so little overtaking, at least this kind on team tactics would add additional spice. You could even play in such a way to block your championship contender as low as possible in the race. If he's good, it will pass. No-go for shunting somebody on purpose though!

[WhiteBlue]

100,000 is the limit the stewards can impose.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think that 1st and 2nd places should be reversed or Alonso's result is disallowed. The team gets points from Massa's finish, Massa gets the win but they get nothing for Alonso. I think that is a lot fairer and will hurt the team more that a $100,000 fine which will be like pocket money to a team teh size of Ferrari.

Both should be penalised.

Massa played his part in this too, and while I feel for him, If he ignored Ferrari we wouldnt have had this problem.