Ferrari team order at Germany - What should be the penalty?

[WhiteBlue]

This situation will have an influence on the outcome of the WMSC hearing. It seems unlikely that there will be any brash penalties against Ferrari. I think that the MWSC will just take away the illegally gained advantage from Alonso, issue a bigger fine and probation to Ferrari and will abolish the team oder rule to appease Ferrari.

wouldn't they first need to prove that it was a team order? That is hard to do even if it was obvious to everyone, no?

I think that was already established by the stewards. IMO there is no need to go through that twice. Perhaps they will simply show the evidence gathered by race control again. Ferrari did not appeal the finding of the stewards so they become legal facts.

[vall]

wouldn't they first need to prove that it was a team order? That is hard to do even if it was obvious to everyone, no?

I think that was already established by the stewards. IMO there is no need to go through that twice. Perhaps they will simply show the evidence gathered by race control again. Ferrari did not appeal the finding of the stewards so they become legal facts.

I don't know how their system works, that's why I'm asking.....

Think of it: if the findings of the stewards can be taken as proofs and I am sure Ferrari would have appealed. They never said it was team orders, but rather giving information to Massa.

[timbo]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/w ... formula-1/

JA's view on the subject.
Very close to mine.

[vall]

http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/3484 ... rmula_One/

[andartop]

Ross Brawn:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85611

David Coulthard:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2398 ... am-orders/

[Pandamasque]

Technically there wasn't a team order. There was a badly coded message. That is not the same. Even though everyone understood the meaning, it doesn't automatically mean everyone understood it correctly. The argument that it was 'obvious' certainly wouldn't stand in the court and probably won't stand in the WMC meeting. I guess the only reason Ferrari didn't even try to argue the case at Hockenheim is because the fine is less of a penalty than the extra publicity they'd get.

On a separate note, I like the reaction of some of the established ones of F1 world. Maybe there's a chance that the stupid rule that makes everyone lie will be scrapped.

[strad]

What should be the penalty for team orders?

There should be none

[xpensive]

What should be the penalty for team orders?

There should be none

The debate is ridicilous, teams are private enterprises and should be entitled to hire drivers on terms at their leisure.

Besides, thinking you could police a rule saying otherwise is naive beyond comprehension.

[WhiteBlue]

Where have all the people been who now come out and say the team order ban should be abolished when the hypocrites pushed the FiA into the nonsense in 2002?

I fully agree with going back to legal team orders. On the other hand they were illegal last Sunday and Alonso gained points illegally which needs to be rectified.

[Richard]

Here's an interesting quote from Stefano Domenicali in Adam Cooper's blog back in March.

Apparently the position on the track "has to be respected"...

Asked by this blog whether he enjoyed seeing the two Ferraris racing each other – as they did for much of the Australian race and rather forcibly at Turn One in Bahrain – Stefano said: “It’s like Hamilton and Button, I saw them side-by-side. Everyone has two cars – unless some teams want to drive with one car – and you have two good drivers, I think that has to be the nature of F1.”

Intriguingly Domenicali also admitted that the drivers were not allowed to race in the ‘final stint.’

“Not in the final stint, during the final stint we have let’s say an internal code of practice that unless there is an obvious situation, the [order] has to be respected. Otherwise you can attack, absolutely.”

http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/03/30/dome ... hing-wood/

[mkw0101]

A $100000 dollar fine to the team which this has happen to Ferrari and they deserve it, plus loss of 5 to 10 points from the constructor points and a suspension of who ever ordered the team order (it should not be driver's mechanic or the driver).

Enough with these stupid politics just race and finisg at the top cleanly.

[mkw0101]

Ferrari did the team order before in 2002 to let Schumacher take the win.
Probably they didn't learn a lesson from the past and just sweeped it under the rug and move on like nothing had happened.

[Belatti]

All the fault was Massa´s stupid attitude of lifting the throttle in an exagerated way and then having a butt face all over the podium and press conference.

He know he is N2, why the heck does he say "If I feel Im N2 I quit racing"?

[mx_tifoso]

All the fault was Massa´s stupid attitude of lifting the throttle in an exagerated way and then having a butt face all over the podium and press conference.

..

I prefer the "slapped rat" simile.

...
He know he is N2, why the heck does he say "If I feel Im N2 I quit racing"?

And yeah he knows he's the #2 this season, but he just might become #1 next year, just as it happened with Raikkonen back in 2007 and 2008.

[DaveKillens]

All the fault was Massa´s stupid attitude of lifting the throttle in an exagerated way and then having a butt face all over the podium and press conference.

My take on how Massa conducted himself for the pass and during the post-race press conference was one of sullen defiance. Sure, he followed team orders, but inwardly was seething in anger at the injustice of it all.

He made it obvious it was a staged pass, he did nothing to defend his actions apart from saying that he's a team player. I believe that altough Massa honored his contract, he made sure the world understood without any doubt that it was a pass ordered by Ferrari management.