Ferrari team order at Germany - What should be the penalty?

[ESPImperium]

Ferarri have gottn away with it!!!

Now the FIA live up to their name again, Ferarri International Assistance.

Monza looking intresting now!!!

[gridwalker]

You'd have thought that the FIA would have at least handed down a token punishment, rather than go through this whole process for nothing.

If it was McLaren, we'd be looking at an epic fine (at the minimum).

Thanks go to the FIA for validating my anti-Ferrari prejudice.

[Pup]

The FIA are essentially saying that championship points are up for sale. I guess that shouldn't be a surprise.

[ecapox]

No, the FIA is basically saying that they cannot enforce what a driver does on his own free will. Smedley said that Alonso was faster. It was Massa's choice to let Alonso through. Now, i am willing to bet that if he didnt let Alonso through he would have been reprimanded. But either way, it was his decision. Smedley didnt say "Massa baby, you need to let Alonso through". He just as easily could have said "Massa you need to conserve fuel" and Alonso would have gone by. Just like McLaren and RedBull have done this season.

You guys are so wishy-washy. One second it's "Good that the FIA treats Ferrari harshly with the penalty for xxxxx" then as soon as they decide that something should go in favor of Ferrari, it becomes "Oh see, here we go, Ferrari has the FIA in it's hands". Make up you minds. Is it not possible that they heard from Ferrari and heard from the Stewards and decided that no furhter action is necessary? Why does everything have to be a conspiracy? If a mexican dude runs over the American border, are all Mexicans illegal? No, in the same sense that you cannot make a valid argument about the FIA helping ferrari based on this outcome.

Cue the Jon Todt is helping Ferrari in 3....

2.....

1....

[andartop]

Some people around here seem to have a distorted opinion about justice. Ferrari have already been punished with a fine for something several other teams have been doing and getting away with. When no further action is taken they call that favouritism!

[andrew]

Now the FIA live up to their name again, Ferarri International Assistance.

What a load of crap! If I ever hear or read that again it'll be too soon.

The simple fact as I see it is, the previous FIA administration under a certain MrM let team orders left right and centre. A precedent of teams being allowed to do this has been set and there is no basis to make the charges stick.

Add to that the fact that both McLaren and Red Bull have blatently implimented team orders this season and nothing has been said then there is no way that any realistic punishment can be handed out.

[Pup]

If I get caught stealing your car, but can pay a fine and get to keep it, is that justice?

If they determined Ferrari were innocent, then ok. If they declared the rule unfair, then ok. But to declare Ferrari guilty, but allow them to reap a reward for breaking the rules? No, that's not justice.

[WhiteBlue]

Alonso has seven illegally obtained championship points that belong to Massa. Striking parallel to 2008 when he got extra points for Piquet crashing in Singapore. At some time when he fights for a championship his karma will probably deal him the equalizer.

[andrew]

Alonso has seven illegally obtained championship points that belong to Massa.

Not proven it seems.

Striking parallel to 2008 when he got extra points for Piquet crashing in Singapore.

Also not proven somehow!

At some time when he fights for a championship his karma will probably deal him the equalizer.

Please, we deal in facts here. Not faddy spiritualism.

[siskue2005]

Alonso has seven illegally obtained championship points that belong to Massa.

Not proven it seems.

You must be joking!
How can it not be proven as they are already found guilty and punished after the race

Striking parallel to 2008 when he got extra points for Piquet crashing in Singapore.

Also not proven somehow!

OMG the amount of Bias here!

[andrew]

No bias here, I can't stand Alonso.

There is different between Ferrari the team and Alonso the driver. The team have a small punishment but the driver themselves has nothing.

Ferrari have gotten away with their shenanigans in Germany and I don't think there was nothing proven against Alonso for Singapore. Whether or not we think it is correct is irrelevant in the final decision but the facts are what they are. Alonso has a clean charge sheet, even though trouble follows him.....

[andartop]

If I get caught stealing your car, but can pay a fine and get to keep it, is that justice?

If they determined Ferrari were innocent, then ok. If they declared the rule unfair, then ok. But to declare Ferrari guilty, but allow them to reap a reward for breaking the rules? No, that's not justice.

No, but Alonso did not steal anyone's car. The rule against team orders can be either interpreted as forbidding the issuing of team orders by a team or the following of team orders by a driver. If someone had to be punished it could be either Ferrari, Massa or both, not Alonso. I cannot think of any F1 driver who would have done anything different in Alonso's place: did you expect him to slow down as well and wait behind Massa? No matter how you may want to see this the fact is there is no evidence that team orders were indeed implemented, so the FIA rightfully decided not to impose further sanctions. Of course anyone could see that they were, as they were in many other instances in the recent past but concealed better so as to deceive better, but proving something like that is another thing. I guess Ferrari could now take this further and demand a refund, but I'm pretty sure they'll let it go.

As I understand the aim of this meeting today was not to review the rule regarding team orders. Hopefully this will happen in the near future.

[Pup]

OK, so I steal your car, and give it to WB. The judge says I have to pay a fine, but WB, since he isn't the one who stole it, gets to keep your car. You'd be ok with that?

To your other point, if there was no evidence, then the WMSC needed to declare them innocent and give them back their money, plain and simple.

[andrew]

Actually, WB would be charged with handling stolen goods and the car would be imponded as evidence. Chances are the car would be crushed or sold by the court/police but the actual owner would get an insurance pay out equal to the value of the stolen goods.

[Pup]

So we should impound Alonso's points then. I'm ok with that.