Ferrari team order at Germany - What should be the penalty?

[gibells]

Yeah I hear you, but I've also heard of research where big companies like what you mentioned shy away from advertising for single teams because of the bipartisan effect it creates. That is, the fans of other teams stop purchasing their products based on the support for the other teams. It can actually be damaging for sales.

[kalinka]

Yeah I hear you, but I've also heard of research where big companies like what you mentioned shy away from advertising for single teams because of the bipartisan effect it creates. That is, the fans of other teams stop purchasing their products based on the support for the other teams. It can actually be damaging for sales.

It may be the case. It was just an opinion. A strange situation, where the most exclusive motorsport can't attract the most powerful companies. Also, I dont't think McLaren fans don't drink Red Bull

Just found this :

[kalinka]

EDIT : double post mistake

[ecapox]

The phrase "Take one for the team" exists for a reason. It's the reason why many of Lance Armstrong's teammates never won a Tour de France. It's the reason why Scottie Pippen almost never had the last shot in a game winning situation and it's why Massa let Alonso past. Its why Webber is told to "save fuel" before Vettel passes him and it is why Jenson was told to "Save fuel. Misture 3" to let Lewis past.

Ferrari did no different. It is only the way that Massa let him past that has raised the ire of the haters (mostly RBR and McLaren fans). So i ask you this, is the meant to stop team orders or is the rule meant to stop teams from saying "Let XXXX past you". Because if you say that it is meeant to stop team orders then i suggest you take a look at all the other teams that have covertly coded team orders in messages this year and years before.

The FIA is run a lot differently now with Max gone. PROVE that Ferrari's message was ordering Massa to let Alonso by. Dont suggest and then base it on a suggestion like Max did, in many cases. Treat the FIA court as a true court. Not some "Well, you were in the vicinity of that murder, and you didnt like the people who were murdered, therefore i sentence you to death.

[siskue2005]

Oh yea Alonso did nothing bad again.
He was just asking for teamorder. Ferrari would not call Massa back if Alonso didn't want it. Its the same story as everybody blames Schumacher for Austria. At least during this time teamorder was not prohibited.
Yea for sure your innocent Alonso in never the one to blame.
It's always just the others.

yup true
i remember how everyone were calling MS cheat and all the bad things

but now Alonso is innocent
And he was innocent in 2007
and he was innocent in 2008

[meves]

Sorry I had a duplicated entry for some strange reason

[meves]

My dull contribution to this is;

They were right to give Ferrari the fine, Ferrari should have been punished further. The drivers shouldn't have been punished and the rule should be amended to something like team orders can be applied before the race but can not be given during the race, then we can all know what they're planning!

Unfortunately Jean Todt has just rendered the FIA a joke again with this statement.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86490

[vall]

Oh yea Alonso did nothing bad again.
He was just asking for teamorder. Ferrari would not call Massa back if Alonso didn't want it. Its the same story as everybody blames Schumacher for Austria. At least during this time teamorder was not prohibited.
Yea for sure your innocent Alonso in never the one to blame.
It's always just the others.

yup true
i remember how everyone were calling MS cheat and all the bad things

but now Alonso is innocent
And he was innocent in 2007
and he was innocent in 2008

Well, the thing is that MS is a proven cheat, on many occasions.

[xpensive]

...
Unfortunately Jean Todt has just rendered the FIA a joke again with this statement.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86490

Strange statement indeed, coming from the FIA, Todt's predecessor rarely bothered with trivialities such as evidence?

[siskue2005]

double post

[siskue2005]

Oh yea Alonso did nothing bad again.
He was just asking for teamorder. Ferrari would not call Massa back if Alonso didn't want it. Its the same story as everybody blames Schumacher for Austria. At least during this time teamorder was not prohibited.
Yea for sure your innocent Alonso in never the one to blame.
It's always just the others.

yup true
i remember how everyone were calling MS cheat and all the bad things

but now Alonso is innocent
And he was innocent in 2007
and he was innocent in 2008

Well, the thing is that MS is a proven cheat, on many occasions.

Can you tell me were was he proven CHEAT??!

if so, isnt Alonso proven CHEAT ?!

Michael Schumacher:
1994 , it was an accident
1997 , he admitted he did that in the heat of the battle
then what 2006 Monaco , can u prove what he did there!? Again heat of the battle

Alonso:
2007: He was a proven cheat as he used Ferrari's data aswell and was cheating with all those emails and stuffs , everyone knows what happened that year.
2008: Singapore Crashgate , cannot be proven he cheated or not, but still who knows
2010: ILEGALLY asked for Massa to move over

Tell me who is involved in more of Cold blooded and well planned cheating and who did it just in the heat of the action!
which one is cheating

[ecapox]

...
Unfortunately Jean Todt has just rendered the FIA a joke again with this statement.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86490

Strange statement indeed, coming from the FIA, Todt's predecessor rarely bothered with trivialities such as evidence?

I think this is what is going to set him apart from Max. He wanted evidence but no one provided such evidence. The only thing you have is the literal words that Smedley said to Massa. Proving that someone's words are different than what they actually mean is impossible.

[Rob01]

siskue2005 I can tell you the ONLY driver EVER to be EXCLUDED from the championship but you wouldn't believe it.

[vall]

Can you tell me were was he proven CHEAT??!

if so, isnt Alonso proven CHEAT ?!

Michael Schumacher:
1994 , it was an accident
1997 , he admitted he did that in the heat of the battle
then what 2006 Monaco , can u prove what he did there!? Again heat of the battle

1994 - yes it was accident to crash, but then why he drove back on the track. And not just drove, but drove across the track to make sure Hill hit him

1997 - of course, and you trust that?

2006 - actually the telemetry proved he stopped without any reason to do that

and I do not buy that "heat of the battle" BS!!! They are all in the heat of the battle, but look how many other drivers did what MS did?

Alonso:
2007: He was a proven cheat as he used Ferrari's data aswell and was cheating with all those emails and stuffs , everyone knows what happened that year.
2008: Singapore Crashgate , cannot be proven he cheated or not, but still who knows
2010: ILEGALLY asked for Massa to move over

Tell me who is involved in more of Cold blooded and well planned cheating and who did it just in the heat of the action!
which one is cheating

2007 - Alonso was at least the third in the chain to receive the info. Who know how much he knew about where the info came from and HOW it was obtained.

2008 - Alonso's involvement is pure speculation at best

2010 - right! Where did you hear Alonso saying "move that little f..k out of my way"?

[zeph]

siskue2005 I can tell you the ONLY driver EVER to be EXCLUDED from the championship but you wouldn't believe it.

I know I know I know! =D>

It was Schu in 1997, right? What did I win?