Ferrari team order at Germany - What should be the penalty?

[Shaddock]

2010 - right! Where did you hear Alonso saying "move that little f..k out of my way"?

Ferrari codes

Alonso: "This is ridiculous!" = "move that little f..k out of my way"

Smedley: "Alonso is faster than you" = "move your slow arse out of his way"

[Rob01]

"Massa was told that he was slower than Alonso to motivate him," said Gracia.

"Angered by the message, Massa decided to slow down, and this led to the suspicions (about team orders)," he added.

Gracia also revealed that he has spoken to Alonso, who knows "nothing" about the imposition of a team order.

As usual Alonso know nothing..

[747heavy]

and I do not buy that "heat of the battle" BS!!! They are all in the heat of the battle, but look how many other drivers did what MS did?

Ayrton Senna in 1990

and he could keep his title - showing again the FIA is not very consistent when it comes to handing out penalities.

[Shaddock]

"Massa was told that he was slower than Alonso to motivate him," said Gracia.

"Angered by the message, Massa decided to slow down, and this led to the suspicions (about team orders)," he added.

Gracia also revealed that he has spoken to Alonso, who knows "nothing" about the imposition of a team order.

As usual Alonso know nothing..

You couldn't make it up! Only Ferrari did, and Todt bought it hook line and sinker.

[Rob01]

He didn't buy it. He just swallowed.

Before you say you are guilty, you need to be able to prove that you are guilty," Todt told the BBC.

"And if you understand all the parts that have been asked, everyone has denied that it was a team order."

Todt, though, was asked whether he, like many others, believed Ferrari had used team orders. His response: "I tend to agree as well."

[autogyro]

He didn't buy it. He just swallowed.

Before you say you are guilty, you need to be able to prove that you are guilty," Todt told the BBC.

"And if you understand all the parts that have been asked, everyone has denied that it was a team order."

Todt, though, was asked whether he, like many others, believed Ferrari had used team orders. His response: "I tend to agree as well."

Thats it then. Now the rot will set in.
Expect Ferrari to order its drivers to crash when required now that Briatore is advising.

[vall]

2010 - right! Where did you hear Alonso saying "move that little f..k out of my way"?

Ferrari codes

Alonso: "This is ridiculous!" = "move that little f..k out of my way"

Smedley: "Alonso is faster than you" = "move your slow arse out of his way"

It is not worse that "Jenson, Jenson, you have to save fuel, you have to save fuel. Mixture 3"

[Shaddock]

Alonso: "This is ridiculous!" = "move that little f..k out of my way"

Smedley: "Alonso is faster than you" = "move your slow arse out of his way"
It is not worse that "Jason, Jason, you have to save fuel, you have to save fuel. Mixture 3"

True, but Alonso was faster, just couldn't overtake Massa, "Jason" is Massa in this sense.

[alberto222mx]

The FIA is a joke.
We shouldn´t be surprised, because had always been and will always be, don´t matter whoever is in charge.
The rule could be very stupid for some people, but in the sports as in life we don´t choose which rules to follow.
Many people here have said "there's no prove of the team order", and seems to be the only valid argument. But is there where the WMSC should make a good judgment and take a fair decision based on the facts and not only in radio communications, is his job.
In every country we have a lot of judges, jurys, etc, and their obligation is see the evidence and use his own judgement to take a decision.
Imagine if for punish every crime, we had to have evidence on video and there was no room for argument, no criminal in the world would be punished.

[siskue2005]

1994 - yes it was accident to crash, but then why he drove back on the track. And not just drove, but drove across the track to make sure Hill hit him

1997 - of course, and you trust that?

2006 - actually the telemetry proved he stopped without any reason to do that

1994 it was Hill's responsibility , he should have waited and not just jump to the inside when a car in front is turning...basically it was a racing incident

1997 yeah i trust him, as he said he hit him deliberately and completely regret his actions

2006 the telemetry didnt prove what you said above, but something different

and I do not buy that "heat of the battle" BS!!! They are all in the heat of the battle, but look how many other drivers did what MS did?

Look hard few decades back!

2007 - Alonso was at least the third in the chain to receive the info. Who know how much he knew about where the info came from and HOW it was obtained.

haha....just read the transcript and you will know
Alonso was well informed where it came from
there is even a quote from Alonso like " did the Ferrari guy tell you when will they pit"
He knew everything about it ....every details...he even tried out weight distribution in the simulator and also knew which lap Kimi and Massa was going to pit!...and he also knew how the special Brake systems work and what sort of Gas they used in their tyre.
isnt that plain cheating?

2008- Crashgate

You should be really Naive to think that he would, without any question come to pits at lap 12 when he was starting from 14 or 15th

[siskue2005]

Ferrari codes

Alonso: "This is ridiculous!" = "move that little f..k out of my way"

Smedley: "Alonso is faster than you" = "move your slow arse out of his way"

It is not worse that "Jenson, Jenson, you have to save fuel, you have to save fuel. Mixture 3"

yes its not the same at all, they stopped them because they collided and the team didnot want them to end up like the RBR...BUT the key point is that they were allowed to race and they did race and Button almost won it

[vall]

It is not worse that "Jenson, Jenson, you have to save fuel, you have to save fuel. Mixture 3"

yes its not the same at all, they stopped them because they collided and the team didnot want them to end up like the RBR...BUT the key point is that they were allowed to race and they did race and Button almost won it

really? and the above message decoded means "Go Jenson, Go, Overtake him!".

And they did not collide, almost did it. Remember that the message was issued after JB overtook LH? Shortly after that Button gave the position back without too much fight.

[siskue2005]

2007 - Alonso was at least the third in the chain to receive the info. Who know how much he knew about where the info came from and HOW it was obtained.

If you still have doubts, here is a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBPRSlzVdto

[Pup]

The phrase "Take one for the team" exists for a reason. It's the reason why many of Lance Armstrong's teammates never won a Tour de France. It's the reason why Scottie Pippen almost never had the last shot in a game winning situation and it's why Massa let Alonso past. Its why Webber is told to "save fuel" before Vettel passes him and it is why Jenson was told to "Save fuel. Misture 3" to let Lewis past.

But of course, you remember these things as a fan with more than a little distaste, right? The problem with 'take one for the team' is that 90% of the time it really means 'take one for your overpaid, egotistical team mate'. It's never pretty; it never ends well.

The FIA is run a lot differently now with Max gone. PROVE that Ferrari's message was ordering Massa to let Alonso by. Dont suggest and then base it on a suggestion like Max did, in many cases. Treat the FIA court as a true court. Not some "Well, you were in the vicinity of that murder, and you didnt like the people who were murdered, therefore i sentence you to death.

Of course, this is the bit that makes the least sense. If indeed there wasn't enough evidence, then why did they uphold the fine? And did they not consider all of Ferrari's bluster in the weeks afterward in which they admitted and defended team orders?

At this point, I won't hazard a guess as to Todt and the WMSC's intentions. It could be that Luca lined more than a few pockets, or it could be that they really think the rule is idiotic, or it could be that they are playing the Whitmarsh tactic of giving in on the public front while pushing back behind closed doors. That is, Todt may have no intention at all of doing away with the rule, and is simply planning to substitute a version with teeth.

The toothless ones are the fans who pay to watch f1

In the US, most of the toothless fans are tuned in to NASCAR. But they're good people.

[siskue2005]

yes its not the same at all, they stopped them because they collided and the team didnot want them to end up like the RBR...BUT the key point is that they were allowed to race and they did race and Button almost won it

really? and the above message decoded means "Go Jenson, Go, Overtake him!".

And they did not collide, almost did it. Remember that the message was issued after JB overtook LH? Shortly after that Button gave the position back without too much fight.

Yes they did touch, going into the first corner
And Button didnot just move over.... just go and watch the video again....it was Lewis who took the corner aggressively and Button had to yield

No they both were told to preserve fuel, but Button managed to have some more fuel than Lewis and he attacked

the fact that Lewis was told Button wont pass him
and still Button passed means there was no team orders at all!!

and Lewis passed into the first corner....after that only did the team say to Button to save fuel ,as the fuel was in critical level! (if you are talking about the FOM edit where the save fuel is brodcasted just before first corner ...it just an edit to include all the actions and radio transmission in one piece)

This is nothing compared to this BS from Ferrari
Alonso: "This is ridiculous!"

Smedley: "Alonso is faster than you"

Even my friend who never watches F1 understood what those meant