Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

[komninosm]

Not to mention a very poor representation of the facts. The only reason Webber came up close to Hamilton was because he lost his braking zone as was shown earlier.

Where do you get this nonsense from? Webber turned easily into the inside of the corner and hadn't missed any braking zone. The only reason why the collision occurred was because Hamilton turned to the inside, thought he was further ahead and didn't realise he as there. Racing incident. It was just luck as to who came off worse.

Trying to blame Webber missing his braking point is a laughable excuse.

a) He didn't because he made the corner.
b) Hamilton went for the apex of the corner where Webber was, so there was no missed braking point.
c) The stewards thought otherwise.

That's it.

I get this "nonsense" from watching the videos. Go and watch the Kubica video again.

[andrew]

Your comparing apple with pears. The two incidents are completely different and cannot be compared.

[segedunum]

That's about the size of it. Hamilton has been clever enough in the past to not go to the inside of the corner, go round the outside and still stay ahead. He just misjudged it on this occasion. Kubica passed Sutil in a similar fashion, but Kubica was far enough ahead and he was a little lucky because he wouldn't have really known.

Yes Kubica as the pics showed was far enough ahead behind Sutil [ed WTF?] that Hamilton's move while so far behind ahead of Webber was clearly his fault [the crash]...

[...]

Arguing blame here is totally fruitless and comes as a result of thinking that Hamilton can do no wrong. I'm on record as giving Webber a hard time around here, but you can't blame two drivers going for the same apex when neither of them are clearly ahead. Once Hamilton gets around the outside of the corner the position is his. As simple as. He just got it wrong.

[komninosm]

That's about the size of it. Hamilton has been clever enough in the past to not go to the inside of the corner, go round the outside and still stay ahead. He just misjudged it on this occasion. Kubica passed Sutil in a similar fashion, but Kubica was far enough ahead and he was a little lucky because he wouldn't have really known.

Yes Kubica as the pics showed was far enough ahead behind Sutil [ed WTF?] that Hamilton's move while so far behind ahead of Webber was clearly his fault [the crash]...

No, you're rephrasing what I've written sweetheart and getting it wrong because it's completely non-sensical. It's the other way on to what you're attempting to say - Kubica is the one doing the overtaking so it's up to him to make sure he's far enough ahead. He's the one risking the collision, and on that occasion he got it right. Hamilton didn't, took the risk and came off worse.

Arguing blame here is totally fruitless and comes as a result of thinking that Hamilton can do no wrong. I'm on record as giving Webber a hard time around here, but you can't blame two drivers going for the same apex when neither of them are clearly ahead. Once Hamilton gets around the outside of the corner the position is his. As simple as. He just got it wrong.

I was making a joke with the ahead-behind thing that went over your head.
The fact is that as the pics showed, in the previous page by Poleman, Hamilton was ahead of Webber and Kubica was behind Sutil when they came into the braking zones for the turn.
Calling me sweetheart is another insult I guess for you... [-X

[komninosm]

Your comparing apple with pears. The two incidents are completely different and cannot be compared.

I'll give you that they're not identical, but they are similar and in the same turn. Same with Shoemaker incident too.
My point isn't that Hamilton was so faster than Webber as Kubica was than Sutil. My point is that Kubica took a similar line to Hamilton and he didn't give more room as some have claimed. Also that he was far behind Sutil coming into the turn while Ham was ahead.
What we're also saying is that in these cases the responsibility falls to the driver behind, Schumi and Webber failed. Sutil even though he was ahead coming in didn't. Schumi and Webber were very lucky not to retire and not to get penalties even. This luck is making some people applaud their foolish moves instead of condemning them as "too optimistic".

[andrew]

So if Hamilton was faster than Webber, you expect Webber to stop the car, get out, put down a red carpet and say "After you dear chap"? It's racing not a Gentlemans Club!

These were all racing incidents. Nothing more can be said about them. Accept that and move on.

[andrew]

The Italian GP is irrelevant and has no frame of refference on here as this thread is about the Singapore Grand Prix.

Yes, another evasion is what I expected...
We use other events to compare stuff all the time. You just want to complain when it doesn't suit you.

No evasion, just want to keep this on topic.

But just to humour you for the final time, read this.
http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/ ... _accident/
Hamilton accepts the blame for Monza and accepts Singapore as a racing incident.

[komninosm]

I've found the real culprit for Hamiltons retirement .... Maclarens ultralight, not very strong wheels:


compared to Webbers front Wheel:

Perhaps they should start fitting chariot blades onto the rims

[komninosm]

So if Hamilton was faster than Webber, you expect Webber to stop the car, get out, put down a red carpet and say "After you dear chap"? It's racing not a Gentlemans Club!

These were all racing incidents. Nothing more can be said about them. Accept that and move on.

/facepalm
I said Hamilton wasn't faster than Webber like Kubica was than Sutil.
Another straw-man and veiled insult from you. Keep it up.
They were racing incidents and the blame was on Webber/Schumi, just like the blame was on Hamilton at Monza. Only difference is that he was the one who retired there and not Massa. Perhaps Schumi/Webber should have gotten a penalty for "surviving" and punting another car off the race for good.


EDIT: Why do some people keep telling me that I need to stop trying to change their opinions and then tell me to "accept it and move on"? Isn't that them trying to change my opinions? Isn't that hypocritical? [-X

[Just_a_fan]

Once Hamilton gets around the outside of the corner the position is his. As simple as. He just got it wrong.

Actually, if you look carefully, Hamilton is moving away from the apex at the point of contact. In effect he has made the corner and is starting the exit phase. The position is his.

One can just as easily say that Webber got it wrong by trying to defend from too far back. Looking at the onboard videos, it appears that Webber is actually marginally too fast to make the corner without contact even if Hamilton had given him another metre of track width. Webber's front wheel just rides over the kerb (in the normal manner) a little before the impact so he could have gone a little tighter if he'd wanted to. Webber's front tyre hit Hamilton's rear tyre - in similar incidents it has been suggested that the inside guy is at fault in this situation and is the one who should avoid the shunt. Something about going for "a closing gap" or "a disappearing wedge" comes to mind.

However, none of it matters. Hamilton accepts it as a racing incident.

"I thought I was enough past him, I couldn't see him and turned in and tried to leave enough room on the inside and the next thing I know I got hit.

"I think it's a racing incident. I came out a bit unfortunate but that's racing."

from http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26092010/ ... acing.html

[zenithbeach]

my favourite moments of this race were:
- lewie throwing his steering wheel in a huff
- renault's radio "massa's tyres are 50 laps old..." lol
- kubica overtaking all those cars, especially massa and sutil! brilliant
- senna crashing into kobayashi's car - priceless
- vettel trying to start in 2nd gear in the pit loool
- heikki the douche almost setting his pants on fire
- webber dropping his champagne bottle on the podium LOL

im really glad vettel refrained from attacking alonso and drove home some points instead. i dont see how he wouldve managed to overtake him without crashing in the process.

and its a bit sad heidfeld got kicked out.. by schumi of all people.

[komninosm]

The Italian GP is irrelevant and has no frame of refference on here as this thread is about the Singapore Grand Prix.

Yes, another evasion is what I expected...
We use other events to compare stuff all the time. You just want to complain when it doesn't suit you.

No evasion, just want to keep this on topic.

But just to humour you for the final time, read this.
http://www.totalf1.com/full_story/view/ ... _accident/
Hamilton accepts the blame for Monza and accepts Singapore as a racing incident.

It wasn't off topic if a valid comparison/point was made.
Also Hamilton is simply not whining in that article (as some other drivers do all the time). "I’m still not exactly sure what happened" is also not very definitive. What do you expect him to do (after all his troubles last years)? Start arguing how the stewards were wrong and their decisions are rubbish? He's not Alonso or his fans. Besides, even I initially thought Webber/Schumi were to blame for the accident, but didn't deserve a penalty. It was only after several viewings of the videos and thought that I came to the conclusion that perhaps they deserved a small penalty, for careless driving and taking out another car.

[andrew]

my favourite moments of this race were:
- lewie throwing his steering wheel in a huff
- renault's radio "massa's tyres are 50 laps old..." lol
- kubica overtaking all those cars, especially massa and sutil! brilliant
- senna crashing into kobayashi's car - priceless
- vettel trying to start in 2nd gear in the pit loool
- heikki the douche almost setting his pants on fire
- webber dropping his champagne bottle on the podium LOL

im really glad vettel refrained from attacking alonso and drove home some points instead. i dont see how he wouldve managed to overtake him without crashing in the process.

and its a bit sad heidfeld got kicked out.. by schumi of all people.

Add to that, a very mature drive by Vettel with no silly mistakes.
http://www.planet-f1.com/news/18227/640 ... -a-mistake

No penalty for Senna after his collision with Koby.
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2435 ... kobayashi/

[segedunum]

Actually, if you look carefully, Hamilton is moving away from the apex at the point of contact. In effect he has made the corner and is starting the exit phase. The position is his.

Hmmmmm, no. Hamilton never made the apex at all. He moved to make the apex and found something was already there, namely Webber.

[ell66]

Actually, if you look carefully, Hamilton is moving away from the apex at the point of contact. In effect he has made the corner and is starting the exit phase. The position is his.

Hmmmmm, no. Hamilton never made the apex at all. He moved to make the apex and found something was already there, namely Webber.

hamilton was ahead, he WAS on the racing line, just look at the way every single other driver took that corner. webber could see hamilton the whole time unlike hamilton who couldnt due to actually being ahead. Webber and choose not to slow down despite being behind and off the racing line. lewis left him a bit of room,and in hindsight should of left a little bit more.

IMO a penalty would of been harsh. but there was no doubt who fault it was, the stewards were only investigating one driver.

On a sidenote, it must be so disapointing for the redbull team, if they had a decent driver on there books the championships would be all theres by now.